The five stack fallacy

General Discussion
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We hear it in game, we see people make topics about it on the forums.

But of course, you can only take people’s word for it because you’re not in their games to see what happened. However yesterday I had a live example.

I queue for a rank game, and someone writes something on the draft screen. Apparently, they lost their previous game to a 5 man who "always does this".

The problem with that statement is, I was their opponent in that last game, queing solo.
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This was the game in question.
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Not a single person on the team was grouped. And they had a triple assasin comp with solo heal Uther. You don’t exactly need an unfair matchup to lose with that. Though we didn’t have a great comp either, and our Alarak wasn’t a smurfing master. I had to target him almost exclusively with Leap of Faith.
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So I think most people complaining about 5 stacks are spending some time in the land of make believe. And strangely, we never hear about 5 stacks when they win a game.

Consider your $#!& called.

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2

No they don’t. They for example just play QM or ARAM on the EU server.

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We did it Patrick, we deboooonked the “five stack fallacy” by committing 10 other fallacies.

My turn. I’ll fight the “low playerbase fallacy”. Today I opened a QM, and found a match in 5 seconds. After that, I opened a LoL Quick Play, and it took 30 seconds to find a match. HOTS must have at least 6x the players of LoL, so I think most people saying otherwise are spending some time in the land of make believe.

And strangely, I’ve never seen anyone mention the smaller playerbase when mm produces a good quality match.

Consider your $#!& called, everyone who said HOTS has a small playerbase.

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In ranked chances of encountering a 5 stack are so rare that it almost never happens. In other modes I honestly don’t care.
I’ve played against 3 to 5 stacks. Most of them sucked anyway and I’ve had more wins than losses. On the extremely rare occasion I’ve played against a very well coordinated 5 stack (only 1 time so far) we lost, but honestly it was a great learning experience. Go watch the replay, and learn how HotS is played.

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I legitimately read this thread multiple times and I don’t understand how this proves anything established about some really unhinged stackers on EU for example.

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You could delete this thread and it would probly be in your favor

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“most” (ie, not actually quantified) complaints on forums/reddit/wherever are about QM, even when they don’t specify that to be the case. It’s the low bar for entry, it allows people to ensure their chosen hero, and they assume the game will magically fix all the other crap for them. That’s why qm continues to be mired with complaints.

SL and ARAM, while facing ‘stacks’, don’t have the skewed winrates that QM gets because the modes accommodate hero selection. QM, as a mode, is problematic because it’s throwing together a bunch of people that all have divergent expectations for the game, and little sense on how to compromise, or problem solve.

Even in an aram pickup, I have the few fleeting moments at hero selection to run a check if people want a ‘normal’ comp, or if they want to meme. They get that fleeting moment of “choice” and that makes a world of difference for many.

QM stacks being able to pick hero synergies before the game forms gives them a boost, but, some players just take the assumption of a “stack” in their game the moment they think they have a disadvantage in the game. So it’s not uncommon for a complaint to say one thing, and then find the replay doesn’t have the size they claimed, neglected they had grouped players on their side too, or even faulted a hero that wasn’t even in that game. Complaint topics also tend to make-up their own ‘matching rules’ and expect people to be mind readers.

The point of the complaint is to complain and expect any, and everyone else to do something about it for them because they put in their effort by making the complaint. That is their world view, and that is the loop of their life from one activity, work, job, commute, whatever, that persists from the complaint.

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8

A sample size of 1 seems somewhat low to make generalised assumptions

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9

The whole 5 stack thing has been blown so ridiculously out of proportion. Its not just hots either, people go on and on about this in all the other pvp team games.

The complains may have been decently founded at one point but its now so hyperbolic that I’ve kind of lost respect for the whole argument. Its like we’ve started a fist fight over the last slice of pizza.

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10

dibs. :face_with_open_eyes_and_hand_over_mouth:

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But QM still screws you on comps whether the opposing team is grouped or not. When you have a bunch of mages vs Valeera, Zeratul and Butcher, you’re probably not winning that game. And you have no control over it, QM will be a crap shoot no matter what you do.

Except if you group with people you know aren’t going to troll and won’t pick a bunch of heroes that are all vlnerable to the same thing, or lack wave clear, can’t secure the objective etc.

But if you do that, then the community will hate you. (Except if you lose your games)

The most popular mode is also the mode that’s the least likely to give anyone a decent game.

Not according to the people who complain apparently. Who by the way rarely provide any evidence. You just have to take their word for it that they lost because they played against a stack. I will take a sample size of 1 before an empty assumption.

That actually almost happened with my brother a long time ago :slight_smile:

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i do not care about stacks just add the option to ban 3 heroes in QM . Qm is a big mess . Ranked takes too much time to wait for a game . i would really like to play Ranked but i don’t want to wait 10 more minutes.

as for your match , hanzo and valera both require a lot of positioning to be played properly and missing the arrow is a lot more punishable than any other ulti as well as the dragon . Butcher also needs to watch for his dives or else he ends up feeding . from what i can see in your match result and as expected , valera fed cause she didn’t know when to gank and when not and the combo thing is another problem. Also another possibility is that nobody in her team helped her and butcher went to farm meat , leaving only 4 people in her team to face 5 people in your team and judging by butcher low damage to heroes ,i guess something like that happened .

talents are also very important too but since they wanna have fun rather than winning their games to rank up they pick whatever talent they want and this is what they get and then they blame “the stacks”.

Maybe stacks can be a fallacy in Ranked but not in QM .

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To be a bit more ‘fair’, per se, a skim over Heroes Profile global party statistics offers a higher glance than just one about party matching for some servers.

When there’s like 25,000 games in a patch, and 100 of those are 5-stack vs solo, it aligns with other player experience where games fall into flame-blame or boogieman stories that look to try to loop prior expectations. eg. that matches are “forced” or the game makes bot allies to throw, or GM’s are stacking to personally ruin someone’s win streak.

Even in the regions/servers that have a higher frequency of stack-stomps, they fall into ruts of projecting something about the people playing to become another sort of boogie-man story.

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Yes other games has the same 5 stack problem as we do. Maybe a little less but still. A game like Halo had 25 solo players quit for every 5 stack pr hour which i read somewhere.

But if we only look at Hots then its still amaze me why groupes had to be cencured from the loading screen just to keep people from rage quitting. 5 stacks are hardly any problem if people just had more discipline. If people suddenly have to think for themself all of the sudden then they drop like flies.

Reason why 5 stacks have so easy time beating randoms. Cause they all fall like flies when an actual challange shows up.

5 stacks who are within your own skill lvl should not be a problem to deal with. Even today they get a mmr penalty for queing up as a groupe and will face higher mmr solo players in exchange.

Only time that dont happen is when 5 3k mmr players decide to mess around and ruin games for people 1k mmr lower then themself. They are the real offenders btw.

Solo players have just set themself up since day one that normal stacks are unbeatable and unjoyable to face. When in reality those 5 stacks where not that much better then yourself if your team just manned up and played properly and stopped playing victim.

But since we live in the age of snowflakes then its much easier to just be lazy and ruin games for the rest of the team and play victim.

Most people who complain about stackers are also the one who died the most against them. That is no secret. Playing solo is only bad because other solo players are lazy and bad and want you to carry them Reason why people groupe up. To remove unnecessary stress from unnecessary sources.

People are tied that we even today have people with 4k account lvl that still have no clue how to play this game. And they complain about stacks being unfair to face when in reality they are the reason why they lost including the other trolls that did nothing for 20 min straight.

But that is just the downside of playing with randoms. Tank/healers that gets forced into doing stuff they are not supposed to do cause lazy troll dmg dealers think they have special rights cause they play dps.

Then they get to ignore important aspects of the game and just play in thier own little burbble. And then get mad when they get pinged or told to react to enemy pushing elswhere.

All just because people today cant handle being told what to do in a multiplayer game.

Too many snowflakes in this game that just want to play this game as a single player game.

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Exactly. If they don’t like it, they should just stop playing it. And if they keep playing it, they must like it.

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16

Not sure what you are trying to prove but let’s pick it apart like it would be done in reverse (even in reverse).

  • You haven’t screenshotted what server you are playing on?
  • How do we know these were 2 matches in a row?
  • Where are your stats for “most people”

I’m sure there is more but my LOL match is starting

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I don’t know why, but It’s been a lot faster lately. Like less than a minute each time since last week.

I have a feeling the same heroes would tend to get banned a lot.And queu times would go up for everyone.

Well mostly because I kept revealing her with my W. And because it’s Valeera :slight_smile:

N.A. But when does anyone screenshot their server?

By reading?
My team mate on the first screenshot: Xellos. My opponent on the second screenshot: Xellos.

On the forums.

My question is: Where are all those things when people write complaining about stacks, and how come you never ask for them? Never seen you question any of that in stack rant topics.

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Well, the obvious part is that it was a ranked match. Premades get matched vs duos over half the time both in ranked and qm. In SL they have a little under 54% wr vs duos, in QM they have a little over 70%. Although it’s titled “The five stack fallacy”, so it might be just a low tier bait.

Anyway, I’ve been playing sc2, and I can say all complaints about 5 stacks are absurd. There are no 5 stacks. I’ve played a few thousand games at least, and didn’t see any. We don’t need y’all LoL players to tell us nun.

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19

I actually do question them too but don’t let facts get in the way of a good story :wink:
Also, because I experience stack abuse, you don’t experience that… We see what we see and tend to ignore other items;
Anyway doesn’t matter, I post “proof” and first comment is an excuse. So call it Tunnel vision, cognitive bias take your pick.

Of course why didn’t I think of that, it’s not like people can leave 5 stacks and play solo :exploding_head:

Can I have a link to the poll or data? :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

How do I know it wasn’t NA without a screenshot… I think it was Korea :stuck_out_tongue:

Edit1: BTW: We can tell you’re making this all up because the guy named “Chineseman” isn’t even in the screen shot :stuck_out_tongue: Nice try though :wink: Unless you are referring to someone else complaining about stacks
Edit2: “Most people” who normally complain, complain generally about QM more than just stacks in general IMO :slight_smile:

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At the end of a match, after you leave the MVP screen, if you open the stats screen you can hover over your opponent’s names and see who they’re in a group with and count how big their group is. I would assume the majority of players who complain about losing to 5 man teams confirm this at the end of the match.

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