https://www.heroesfire.com/hots/concept/the-butcher-rework-11647
My try on making him more balanced and stable throughout the game.
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I dont feel like this changes much other then his stack thing being a bit less lame when dieing a lot but the whole stacking and loseing stacks thing isnt what keeps butch from being strong. Alarak has this in an even more extreme form but Iâd argue heâs a much more functional hero.
When I play with or against a butcher the biggest issue always seems to be how extremely âall or nothingâ he is. His charge is loud, slow, and everyone knows who your charging at. There arenât a whole lot of tricks or fancy mix ups either.
The other thing that pushes him so hard in to this playstyle is his mark. You put it on someone and you have to melee that one guy. Its duration is very short unless you continually hit that that one person.
Combined with relying hard with AAs makes him a sink or swim diver who is very easy to peel. His one saving grace is that sometimes he gets so many stacks that it just doesnât matter but that also means there are just as many times where he doesnât get stacks and canât be impactful on the off chance that his kit does work properly.
On the topic of his ults, I think they are actually not to far off from each other in a vacuum. Its not a vacuum tho. Lambs provides him with the tools he needs to actually stick to someone and milk that sweet sweet mark healing. Furnace blast does respectable damage but what happens is everyone and their mom sees it coming due to how butchers charge works and you only hit 1 person. If butcher didnât need to rely so hard on lamb to get things done
I really think Es gotta get a big mechanical change here and maybe some talents that make brand a bit more flexible. I donât think his stacks are his main issue but rather but rather become even more polarizing due to the rest of his kit.
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They are, because all of his gameplay depends on it.
Alarak can be effective even with 100 sadism because he has Q, W and Counterstrike.
Butcher is useless if his quest is not completed - the only thing that saves him in that situation is broken Heroic buff at lvl 20 Slaughterhouse.
BUT, if he completes his quest in ~6 minutes, his enemies are doomed to lose 90% of the time. And even then he can pick Slaughterhouse and win easily.
Ruthless Onslaught is not a problem, because Butcher is not the one who dives first - he must dive after his team, not 1v5.
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I dont think butcher should be totaly useless without stacks.
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This is what iâve fixed by increasing AD bonus for each MEAT while greatly reducing the Reward from 200 MEAT.
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My main issue is that he cant deal that damage. Hes so easy to peel, even when butchers complete their quest they can struggle to do what most other bruisers could do. Its like Yrel if she couldnât use her trait to get off one free cast every now and then. Butcher just has to commit so hard to things and that can be dangerous when dieing means you lose some of your effectiveness.
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Yeah, but isnât that exactly what makes The Butcher interesting? On the one hand he needs to go âALL INâ, but on the other hand he can get rewarded greatly. Itâs the classical idea of an hypercarry, high risk, high reward.
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You know heâs a Melee Melee Assassin right? So comparing Butcher to Yrel is just wrong?
I̶m̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶s̶u̶r̶e̶ ̶w̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶m̶e̶a̶n̶ ̶b̶y̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶.̶
I think my points still stand.
He just suffers so much from how easily he can get peeled off. Even more so if were comparing him to the likes of kerrigan or zeratul rather then bruisers.
Butcher has to nuke someone with his combo or hes completly out of tools. If he gets CCd right after his charge or his target receives armor or healing he wont get the kill.
Heck, as soon as the stun wares off, some simple body blocks are all you need to stop him.
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Kinda, but you have to consider that melee assassines usually can be played bruiser-ish, at least as solo laner. And for a carry, he has a good amount of health and can talent into more protection like armor. And I donât even talked about his CC. He has pretty dangerous amount of cc for someone, who can potencially increase his damage massively.
In Dota 2 The Butcher would be op, he is Spiritbreaker on steriods.
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I know it. What i meant is that Yrel and Butcher are very different heroes.
Yrel can dive too, but sheâs closer to a tank that helps her team.
Butcher is a dive hero type that tries to charge with his team into fight to deal as much damage is possible.
I was more referring to how much yrel can get screwed up by just a little bit of intervention then their playstyles.
I get that his thing and his charge does feel awesome to use even if its not very strong but I just donât think that mixes very well with the stacking thing if your trying to make a competively viable hero.
The Butcher is an old hero and his concept just doesnât fits Hots gameplay, because this game is unlike Dota 2 or LoL much faster without a slow farming level at the beginning, but it can go straight to the battle or ganks. Does it mean hyper carrys like The Butcher or Illidan doesnât make sense in Hots and should be reworked? I am not sure about it, because Hots is all about âdifferent playstylesâ and this two heroes might be outdated, but their playstyle is sth. that reminds me on the older style on âhypercarrysâ.
Actually it fits HotS gameplay very well.
I dont think he needs a big sweeping rework like gaz got. His biggest flavor factor is also his biggest weakness. When he charges you know exactly where hes about to be and youâve got almost 2 seconds worth of notice. If he could just be less predictable with his charges it would make a huge difference.
As it is right now, soon as you hear that charge sound you drop your zoning stuff and your heals on the guy hes charging and he either powers through it or he cancels his charge and hes out his best baseline CC and mobility skill.
Changing how the hero feels to play is now what I want to happen just to clarify.
His E is the least of his problems. You can cancel it or even wait until your enemies waste abilities that will hurt you to dive without danger.
And why do you want to rework him then, if The Butcher fits HotS gameplay very well? It doesnât make sense.
If you cancel it in a fight you cant just wait another 15 seconds to try again. The issue is that it just takes so little to stop him. You cant just wait for the other team to spend their body blocks and keeping one ability off cooldown in order to invalidate almost an entire hero is absolutely worth it.
His basic kit fits HotS gameplay.
That does NOT mean his abilities and talents arenât problematic.
I already pointed out his main problems (even in rework).
You donât cancel it in 5v5 fights. You cancel it if you see that your target is far away from your own teammates.
It is. Your entire gameplay built on killing heroes and youâre punished for dying.