Conversely, you just take advantage of the curse and let them have boss. Once you’ve taken a keep with the amount of time they’ve wasted on boss, you just defend the boss. This is especially since you’ve still got literally all your forts and the enemy is going to now have to defend their core rather than help push the boss.
You just gave an alternate example that has a WAY inferior reward. You’re already going to take advantage of curse by the simple act of them not defending. By contesting boss, you can potentially get an even bigger momentum swing by potentially killing them and stealing the boss.
Because by contesting, they either back off and realize they were stupid for doing boss during curse. Or, they die and lose the boss, which as we’ve established before is the more likely scenario, and you now do so and can push with the boss right after they ignored a curse.
You can do it your way, it’s just the bad play. The issue here is the healer dying, your plan to never go in the first place and concede is just not playing to advantages.
‘Potentially’ being the operative word in that sentence. It’s a gamble and a pointless one at that. Again, we were spread out. They decided to start boss while we were busy capitalizing on pushing in. Attempting to steal boss was the dumb and risky play that would have given us nothing we didn’t already have.
Everything in the game is a gamble, but contesting a boss that you don’t initiate, odds are stacked in your favor. Bosses don’t die instantly, you can get to the boss from anywhere in the map faster than it takes to down it. Those who arrive first don’t need to win, they just need to be annoying and delay until more come. If you are however slow and don’t go at all, that is a you problem.
Really? You can’t see how potentially killing them and pushing with a boss gives you “nothing”? LoL, okay.
Nothing we didn’t already have. We already knocked down a keep, we had a level advantage, and they hadn’t even taken a fort. It was literally a win-more situation.
If you’re gonna strawman me, at least be intellectually honest about it and read what I said in full.
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So, you had a level advantage too? Yikes.
The win more situation is sort of the whole point. Nothing you didn’t already have lol? You would potentially have an even larger level advantage if you got kills, and you’d get way more push. And the chances of doing so are pretty high because they initiated the boss and would have to defend against both it and your team.
And that clearly didn’t work out because the team was so obsessed with improperly diving towards the boss that all 4 of them died, destroyed our level advantage. That boss then took our keep instead because they were allowed to free push.
As opposed to the smarter play of just letting them have boss while we were disorganized and killing it before it could even take a fort. We would have still been in an advantageous situation.
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if you belong to the average player pool then 50% winrate is normal. If you are better then your winrate will be higher.
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It didn’t work because the healer died before others could arrive, not because the idea to contest was bad. You’re confusing a micro tactical failure vs macro strategy. The intention to contest was good, the execution was bad mainly because the healer wasn’t careful and potentially on others for not arriving sooner.
Once the healer was out, the odds are no longer clearly in your favor, and then the calculus changes. At that point, cutting your losses and abandoning boss isn’t the worst play (but contesting boss even when you’re down a man isn’t even that bad, because tanking and initiating boss really does put you at a significant disadvantage). But before that death, to never go in the first place and just auto concede is anything but smart. Choosing the conservative play when you have the advantage is dumb.
It’s like blaming your team for going to a fight that you have a talent advantage after you lose because an ETC got a mosh. Is going to the fight bad, or was it perhaps the people who didn’t get moshed that had interrupts available whiffed or didn’t use them was the issue? You’re blaming a bad outcome on the strat rather than the execution of the strat.
Exactly. The average NPC normie can’t figure that type of thing out. Every situation is different and fighting over boss can be a terrible idea.
The intention was not good. We could have probably gotten another keep anyway if we had kept pushing while they were distracted with boss; something the boss would have done anyway.
This is exactly what I’m talking. Boss obsession. You’re so obsessed with boss that you refuse to even calculate the metrics of what you gain beyond ‘the boss’. Even stranger is you’re trying to tell me this is the ‘smart’ play.
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You’re delusional if you think you can do more push without boss and now you have to defend against boss and enemies that are alive vs kills + boss push. Any kind of push you can do with curse (which again will push even without your help), you can do way more with a boss and enemies being dead. Contesting boss was the smart play.
Don’t get me wrong, people do obsess over boss, but that’s usually because they initiate boss while enemy is up. Which… is exactly what the enemy did and the position you guys were in. To not exploit that is on you.
I had a game where we wiped whole team but instead of going for boss we pushed midlane and took down keep and core aswell before they spawned. We had one who pinged boss but we ignored him and he also got back to us when he saw none was coming to do it.
The time it takes for your boss to get captured and then have it move down the lane its sometimes waste of time when you could just pushed that lane and end faster.
If all forts are down its much faster just to push one lane and be done with it instead of capturing a boss that will likely die anyway before it reach thier core.
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You can do more push without a boss. If you have the momentum to just take a keep, get the keep. Boss=time and risk=reward. What was the reward? We get a keep we would have gotten anyway if we hadn’t turned around to try and stop boss.
So what if they push with boss? What part in your thick skull do you not comprehend they hadn’t even taken a single fort? We gave up a keep we already had to rush into a situation we weren’t prepared for gave them a keep that ultimately cost us the game.
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Haha, yeah, keep telling yourself, that if the healer hadn’t died, and you grouped and contested the boss, that somehow you would get LESS push, with no one to contest. It’s insane. It’s possible if you somehow manage to steal boss, all 5 of them survive, and get away, you ignore boss push, and then just do mercs, or go back to base. Then sure, you can get less push.
What does them having taken no forts down have anything to do with your push with a boss? All that means is that you have to defend the boss which slows down your push, or let it push and you risk losing your fort. Gawd your analysis and foresight is so horrible. The point of contesting isn’t to say I can take some damage, it’s to push your advantages so you get closer to winning.
Because we didn’t need to push with the boss, genius. Boss would have done nothing we couldn’t already have done while they were distracted with boss.
We were already closer to winning. It was a pointless risk. The irony of you saying my analysis is terrible when you’re exact person I’m talking about; obsesses over the boss to grab push that’s unneeded.
You’re talking about a disorganized push to maybe get a keep and maybe win when again, we were already going to do that anyway. We had level advantage, hadn’t lost a fort, and could easily defend boss.
You didn’t need to like I said, it’s just dumb play to not contest because you already had the advantage, not only in level but because initiating and tanking boss is risky for them. That means they’d be at a disadvantage to be both flanked while probably being also at lower health and used CDs. They’re the ones that made a bad play, you would have gone out ahead either way. It’s the fact that you didn’t exploit that to punish them extra is where you somehow think you made the smart play when it wasn’t is what’s funny.
This is where you’re delusional. Like I said before, any kind of push you can do with curse, you will be able to do the same with uncontested minion curse push, especially if you already have a large wave already gathered up, which will gather inevitably with no one defending. You can literally be afk and still do a lot of damage if enemy isn’t contesting, which they weren’t because they were doing boss. You somehow think babysitting minions that will instantly one shot their minions is needed to do damage.
AND if you successfully got the boss, most likely by killing some of them because they’re the ones exposed, the fact you somehow think you would do less damage with a boss pushing (ie basically the same as no enemies to stop you from pushing AND boss pushing). What’s the difference between pushing with curse and pushing with boss and killing them?
Towers that aren’t firing at the boss can shoot you that a healer will be able to easily heal up? The horror. Do you really think you’re that bad?
No. You’re delusional. You weren’t there. You want to pretend you could have pulled off a 100% functional QM play to grab boss perfectly and wipe the enemy team and win the game.
Here in reality, that doesn’t work. It’s the height of stupidity to pretend otherwise. We were spread out, taking advantage of a curse. Team broke away from our push advantage to try to trickle in to contest boss that would have maybe taken a fort.
I’m done with you. You’re too far up your own rear end with tunnel vision to see the bigger picture. Continue with your delusions.
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The point of the boss isn’t always to end. If it gets you a keep it’s absolutely worth it.
There are certain forum members you’re better off just pretending they don’t exist. The time spent discussing with them would be better served doing factually anything else. Like learning blindfolded origami.
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