I just joined a game where my healer was afk from the moment the game began. After getting killed a few times our Bruiser quit the game. So for the next 5 minutes we had to play with 2 bots on our team… Our solo laner was lagging because he was having connection issues, and at some point HE ALSO DISCONNECTED!
So because the dev team for this game refuses to put a “surrender” feature in the game, I was forced to play out this game with 3 BOTS on my team. We obviously got snowballed over and lost.
I hear Blizzard say that adding a surrender feature would promote toxicity. Well I’m here to tell you nothing makes me feel more toxic than being TRAPPED in a game like this.
Just add the ability to vote to surrender a game, even if they add a time constraint like only after 10 or 20 minutes has passed or something where the enemy team has to have a huge level lead.
But more on topic, make the feature available if someone from the game fails to connect or leaves the game, because nobody should be forced to spend 20-30 minutes on a game they queued for when their team mates leave.
Just allow for me and my 1 team mate who are trapped in a game with 3 bots to vote to leave without waiting on the enemy team to destroy all our buildings. I’m begging you.
Just allow anyone to leave with lessened point/MMR loss if one or more people fail to reconnect for 5 mins. No need for votes.
For arguments sake, let us leave for 100 points instead of 200. Those extra points would be deducted from the leaver/leavers point balance (100 per teammate, up to 400). Enemy gets full points. No deficit is created.
If Blizzard fears abuse of the feature by groups, simply give no loss forgiveness if that disconnected player was on your friend list or in your party.
I don’t see any downsides to this. I’ll gladly pay 100 points just to exit and requeue for the next match, instead of hanging around for 15+ mins in a lost match.
When you only win 200 points for a win, 100 points is a lot
I agree this will promote toxicity. Yet, I found your idea interesting.
Be able to surrender the game when you have at least two bots. You should get a REDUCED point loss instead of the full amount for surrendering.
There are A LOT of parameters that come into play here to be given this option of course. Is someone DCing and reconnecting during the whole match? What if someone DC’s and the poor reconnected system takes too long? What is the cut off for the amount of BOTS. What is the time limit for the DC? I understand that 1 bot is a loss.
FFXIV does a nice system where the first person to leave is punished while the rest are free to leave. People who DC aren’t flagged as “leaving”… Typically, people who leave for real, aren’t in the party. People who DC are still in the party but, are DC’ed. So it is up to the rest of the party to kick them. But the community is nice in FFXIV, so we wait for people who DC.
I don’t think HOTS has this sort of check. If a player chooses to leave the match, the game should announce the player has left the match and is replaced with a BOT and the rest of the team is given the option to stay.
If a player DC’s they are given the option to return to the match (good luck) since they didn’t click leave match. There should be a time limit of how long a person is given to return to the match after a DC. I feel 5 minutes accumulative is enough.
Then of course you will have to deal with people gaming the system. Moving around just enough to stay in the game, while clearly doing absolutely nothing. How do you separate the noobs with the trolls who seem to behave the same way?
The forum intelligentsia will be in shortly to remind you that you play poorly and therefore must play out the remaining portion of the game without complaint to build character.
Sadly, there is little hope for a surrender button. Blizzard seems to think that the games are short enough that if you have to play out a 20 minute game with AI, that’s still Fun™ and you should be forced to do it for as long as it takes the enemy team to stop farming kills and exp and just win the game - again because being farmed for exp is Fun™. It doesn’t matter if the Illidan AI charges headlong 1v5 into the enemy as soon as it spawns for the 12th time. That’s Fun™ and you should enjoy it.
Sarcasm aside I have long argued for a Surrender option. This is my latest version:
- All players on a team must voluntarily click to surrender
- It functions as a toggle. You click the button if you’re done. If all members of the team click it, the game ends in a loss immediately.
- No exp, gold, or quest rewards are awarded to the surrendering team. Any ranked penalties are immediately assessed. It simply gives you back your time, which is valuable, and lets you end a game before the core falls without a leaver penalty.
- The winning team receives any earned exp, gold, quest credit, rank points (they are not penalized for playing in good faith)
- The vote is silent. There is no indication that a player has clicked to surrender. The default logic remains “play to win til the end”. Only when all active players on a team deem the game futile will it end.
- An additional toggle is placed in the Options menu to disable the surrender button in all games for any player who never wishes to surrender. For these players, the game plays exactly as it does now. Surrender is 100% opt-in only.
The UI would be simple. You simply add a small button. Click it to flag yourself for surrender. Click it off if you recover your will to play and play on. For players with the Always Play option enabled, the button is gray and unclickable. There is no vote, no timers, no overlays, no dialogue boxes. You just opt-in if you want and the game ends if all active players on a team choose it.
There’s no way to abuse it. There’s no way to harass people over it because there is no status indication. You can’t target anyone over it. You can’t know if someone just has no button because they always want to play. Any abusive chat or toxic behavior is handled by current in-game mute and report functions. All it does is offer a solution for the situations where all active players on a team agree the game is futile, such as if a large number of players disconnect.
What about the other team’s fun? They had their fun. They won the game. They got to farm til enough players clicked in to end it. They get their rewards. They get their victory, and they can immediately re-queue for another more competitive game. They lose literally nothing.
Edit: I do support loss forgiveness in ranked play when it’s due to AI. The specifics of how that would work is beyond me, because I don’t play ranked. I’m not married to the idea that a surrendering team must also lose 100% of ranked points, if for example 4 of your teammates D/C (yes, I’ve had it happen). It’s hard to argue for a full penalty in that situation. And how does the winning team benefit in that situation? Full point gain and MMR inflation? Or they get an equal transfer from the surrendering team? Someone should think about how that would work, but as I don’t play ranked, my opinion carries little weight there.
Trolls/afks deserve to get reported. I hope you did that.
I’ll give my opinion, and see what you think.
I’ve always been a hardcore “no surrender” in all my games. Playing Smite showed me that people abuse that feature the very moment there is a team wipe (even at mid game) or one player leaves (you can carry the game way easier than in Hots, ez to win 4v5 if you try well).
But 2 bots can be very annoying. You’d see this more often in QM.
When I play a blizzard game, my computer breaks for whatever reason and I have to restart (around 3-5 mins, the rejoin system is by far the worst and slowest in gaming), but I always come back. Happens 1/15 games or so. I believe many people have this kind of issues. Never happened to me in other more heavy performance focused games such as Total War with big armies at high resolution.
The point is, people assume if one player leaves is he rage quit, and it is not always like that. The blizzard rejoin system is a big issue, at least for me.
And I’ll always say no even as a pro surrender player. Your system won’t work because it’s extremely rare for all 5 players (or 4 with a bot) to say yes to a surrender. In LoL you’ll always get the one player who says “no”. Hots is even more anti surrender which means the surrender function may as well not exist in ur system
Tbh if 3/5 players want to give up, the system shouldn’t penalize them (by the 2 non fakers manual reports) should the 3 players collectively agree to afk. The “team” majority voted to surrender. And yes, this would mean Trios would have a ton of power. That’s why luckily in LoL you have up to duos in ranked
That’s exactly the point. It’s a system that’s designed to protect the status quo is all but the most extreme cases. Encouraging players to play to win is a good thing. As you said, in other games, you get a social dynamic of defeatism. With what I’m proposing, you counter that by using a silent vote. If one player wants to play on, then that gets respected.
As you said, surrenders will be rare. That’s a good thing. We don’t want it to be common. We just want it there to override the worst stomps and situations where half or more of the team is gone and being played by AI.
And if in a 3 afk two players left, you still won’t let one remaining guy who wants to leave because the second guy on his team says “neverrrrrr” in the true hots mindset
The idea of surrendering is funny in LoL. Koreans surrender the fastest but they’re the best early-mid game region. That’s why they tend to beat the other regions. You mess up early game? Time for next game. Stop making mistakes. Thing is, the rare game that goes to late game, other regions have a chance because Koreans don’t tend to go late game. Still doesn’t change the fact Koreans are better despite surrendering more
Lol also has a million percent more levels of snowballing then HOTS which has means of catching up in power built into the game itself hence why HOTS players don’t want to quit or at least those of us who actually know how the game works.
I’d say this is a factual summary of what Blizz thinks about players of their game.
Are they able to do this?
A,“Hey, let’s ditch this game”
B,“Yeah ok”
A,“Who didn’t click to leave game?!?!”
C,“…”
A,“Hey @#%@#$ click surrender you #%@#$ or else I will report you!”
B,“Reported for not having surrender enabled”
So fun…
Correct. That player wants to play. All 10 players agreed to play when they clicked Ready. The override to surrender only kicks in if it’s unanimously agreed. It should be some comfort to the other 2 remaining players that likely, it won’t take too long, and if they do play it out, they still get their exp and gold which they’d have to give up to surrender.
This no different than targeted harassment over any other issue. People can get angry for any reason they want. Only the behavior matters, and Blizzard gives you the tools to manage chat you don’t want to read and to report people who step over the line. The reason I added the perma-opt-out with a grayed out interface was specifically so players who didn’t want to surrender would have an out. They just say they can’t click the button because it’s not enabled - and that’s if they want to respond at all.
You may have missed the point I was trying to make. I don’t enjoy being on a stomping team anymore than being on the one getting stomped either. The point was that the winning team is not penalized in any way if their opponents opt to surrender.
You did say people won’t get harassed because of the feature, and I brought an example of how it still can be used as a reason to harass people. People will use any reason to harass another, this is just one more people will use to justify their own toxicity. Turning off chat is always a detriment to the spirit of the game. Turning off one feature just so an other feature can work as intended is called a flaw.
No I didn’t. You don’t enjoy being on the stomping team or the team being stomped, so why mention the “fun” as a point? You spent a paragraph doing so. The winning team never gets penalized because they stayed till the end to win the match. Obviously.
There is no need for a toggle in a menu. Having this does nothing. The option should be available at all times. Hit ESC, click surrender. You are still stuck in the match, waiting for others to give up. When people get impatient, they will either flat out leave, AFK, troll, feed, false report, or harass others to surrender so they don’t get the penalty.
Why did I include that paragraph? Because this isn’t the first time I’ve suggested a surrender option. I’ve had people suggest that 10 people selected ready, 10 people wanted to play so the 5 on the winning team should be able to have their fun. They defined that “fun” to include those points I mentioned in that paragraph. I wrote it specifically to address that potential counterpoint. The winning team loses nothing. They don’t lose their “fun.” Fun, like art, is an opinion. It’s subjective. While I enjoy an evenly matched game where both teams have a legitimate chance to win, some of these people enjoyed facestomping, b-stepping, and otherwise trolling and humiliating the opposing team. I don’t enjoy that, so I used the term somewhat sarcastically.
As for the need for the toggle, that too, is the result of previous debates. Some players argue that they never want to surrender. They always want to play. They don’t want any buttons or dialog boxes or other UI interference in any way. They like the status quo. I think they have a right to their opinion, so I included the toggle. It’s opt-in, not flagged by default. Only the players who never want to surrender will use it. I suspect this will be a tiny minority because most players will want to at least have the option if their team suddenly disconnects. The default UI would include the opt-in “I want to surrender” button that a player could click if they’re ready to surrender.
I still think it needs to be a silent mechanic to prevent trolling. If players want to voice their opinions and hash it out in chat, they can, but they’re not required to. By making it silent, you reduce the potential trolling, harassment, and shaming of someone who doesn’t want to go with the majority. If the harassment still occurs, the tools are already there.
I understand you want to listen to the players and include their ideas but, believe it or not, a lot of them don’t understand psychology. It also doesn’t mean it’s a good idea. Like thinking, they should have their “fun” in stomps, also isn’t a good idea. So there is no need to include or listen to such an idea. It’s toxic for the community. If this sort of thing continues, there won’t be a community, because those who got stomped, won’t want to return, for the sake of their “fun”.
If they don’t ever want to surrender, I’m sure they’re mature enough to not click the surrender button. It’s not a loot box that prey’s on peoples addictive behavior. It’s a button, accessible in a menu. I have never seen a surrender button ever “pop up” anywhere when the situation becomes in dire need of it.
I agree a silent surrender is a good idea, and could HELP reduce the trolling.
The option to surrender should always be there, but as it is now, the community is not ready for it, NOR is Blizz. Blizz needs more than just a button. They need and the community needs various checks before this option can be less abusable.
Never listen to those who shut out innovation. They are the ones delaying human progress.
I would rather play the game to end then leaving it and get place in toxic leaver que were everyone are a troll.
So they surrender when they face a good team and play the game when they face a weak team. Got it. Must be fun to surrender 80% of your games just becasue you lose early game lol.
If you really have 2-3 bots in your team and there is no chance of winning… just stay at the nexus with the bots.
It happening rarely but when I am facing this issue I am just asking my team if they wants to continue or wait at the nexus. Most of the time we agree.
And when you have 5 players in the nexus I can guarantee the game will not last more than 5 minutes. The enemy team will understand quickly what happens and will just try to end it as quick as possible. Because… well there is no fun to play against minions.
The being said the lost of points is another story.
If you’re one of two players left and you stay in the nexus, that is reportable if the other remaining player doesn’t want to give up
That is why I mentioned that I usually ask my teammates about their will to continue or stop. If they wants to continue their is no point, and you will have the same issue with the surrender option.