I am a bit puzzled about adding a bruiser when there are hardly any supports in the game (could use 1-2 more tanks too).
A macro hero would be amazing, but even a utility hero like medivh or a half-heal hybrid like zarya (or old tyrande, tass) would be nice to have. I am sick of stuff that does dmg n cc in new hero kits- we have plenty of those! support??!
Support is the most neglected category of heroes in the game, I guess Blizzard either does not like the category very much, or doesn’t think it’s profitable to create characters within that class
(low’ish solo impact, non-flashy plays, very dependent on enabling good teammates -> low sales and popularity -> low skin sales)
It’s just… it’s super hard to create a Support Hero, because it easily becomes one of the other roles.
Hard to balanced.
I tried to create a few Support Heroes and I had to be extra careful that they don’t end up as a Tank/Healer/Assassin.
And that’s when I wanted to create a Support, while Blizz doesn’t force roles and just try to make a working, unique and cool kit, fitting for the Hero they chose to represent it.
Blizz makes Supports by “accidents”. But that rarely happens.
Good points. It must be a nightmare to create one from scratch and attempt to make them balanced, compared to “pieces of cake” like Ranged Assassin or Bruiser.
There’s also the issue of how many ways you can heal a cat. What concept have we not done, in terms of broader scope, in the healer pool? We have two or three that operate with basics strongly integrated, a handful that operate more magelike. We have gates like Alex who shares her own health, Morales who attaches a cord, and Auriel who turns damage into heals. We have Cain whose heals are objects, and Lucio who just creates a heal zone around him; we have Malfurion who specializes in sustained healing over time, and Uther who deals in big wedges of burst heal. Stukov represents mechanically intensive healing (setting and spreading pathogens for proper detonations), while we have a pick like Li Li who just presses a button and fires it at the nearest, lowest ally. In case you feel good about skillshots, we have Ana who rewards skilled shooting and punishes sloppy skillshots/predictions.
I think one of the few things we might not really have is one who deals with global heals-- if you’ve ever played League, something like Soraka’s ult, where it’s a large burst heal on every ally (for the uninitiated, just think Mephisto’s Consume Souls, but a heal)-- but even then we have Brightwing and we have Alex with a wide range heal/damage ult, as well as Ana’s Eye of Horus… We kind of lack a shield specialist but Lucio brings the big chungus shield ult, and we have Zarya in support bringing big shield mechanics.
Like, I’m struggling to think of how a healer kit could be designed where it’s A) not just doing someone else’s job (better or worse), and B) not just something that plain doesn’t need to exist… like assassin-healers with sustain and cc.
I guess we don’t have a healer specializing in counter CC explicitly, but then there are picks like Tyrande and Kharazim who can get access to cleanse effects rather liberally.
Tyrande has that with Shadowstalk though.
Ah, yeah, even though it’s a HoT. We also get global range (if not piercing) on Ana too.
Like I said, we’re not exactly hurting for concept coverage, as much as I want another healer. Anduin, to me, already kinda felt lukewarm as a healer and I think this shows most painfully in his ludicrously mediocre talents. (Just an IMO thing though, not basing that off stats of any kind)
Wish they didn’t remove Tassadar from his Support role.
Not only did they take a hero from a role with fewest members and added it to the one with the most, but they also made the whole High Templar fantasy even worse since his Q being a shield (there were High Templars that did that, and it is a Protoss thing as a whole) was more suited for the fantasy than some random skill-shot that overshadows Psionic Storm (aka the most iconic ability of the High Templars).
I think macro or utility hero will be hard to make and balance.
But a hybrid healer? That’s much more simple, just take an assassin kit and remove one dmg tool and replace with heals. Balance the numbers til their heals is staying around 30-35k per lvl 20 game.
There’s literally only one “half heal” hero left now (zarya) since tyr became main heal and tass dps… it’s not hard to work 1-2 more heroes into the hybrid healer niche
Support-Tyrande (from the era of the old but hidden “Sustain” role (latter changed into Support)) was like that, but it just didn’t work out.
Sure, some ppl liked it, and it felt good to them, but those Heroes have no chance at getting played in a competitive environement. Iirc that’s why she got reworked.
But I’d like to get more Supports.
Here are my Support ideas:
“supports” aren’t really a design category, they’re just exceptions to QM matchmaking.
Having a goal of intentionally trying to create a categorically problematic design for QM is generally not the design point by which a hero is made. Similarly, organized play don’t chatter about “hey, we should pick a support” with minor concession being to the select few that call ‘healers’ by their old label of ‘support’.
I’m guessing from your criteria tank supports, mage supports, and heal supports in LoL don’t qualify as true supports in hots. Luckily there’s still other types of supports in LoL. So we could have Janna, Lulu, thresh (he’s tanky but he’s not a tank in any sense), and Zilean (faster xp gain for the team could be a new mechanic in hots) in the nexus as supports
The biggest problem that’s stopping supports is the fact that in hots it’s mandatory to have a healer (if you’re going meta) just as how in LoL it’s mandatory to have a support. That takes away one slot on the team for a support in hots
The support class consists of either macro heroes or heroes that provide half-heals and some utility. That’s not random, there’s a clear pattern of what constitutes a support.
Unless you start looking at exceptions that aren’t a support.
Yrel heals, but she’s not a support.
I think there are a couple of unique mechanics that don’t have to fit into the tank/healer/assassin category. For example, spell slow mechanics could be given to someone like Ithireal or Nozdormu. This is kinda the opposite of ‘basic ability recharges X% faster’.
Macro is a more obvious category, someone like Overmind or N’zoth (or a combo hero with some sort of internal conflict mechanics where Overmind and N’zoth is fighting each other but you control both and their abilities revolve around their fight of control) can be like a more specialized Abathur (and Abathur may be reworked into full on enhancing other heroes or something, idk let’s not get into that)
Shield heroes are pretty obvious too, but maybe kinda like old Tassadar where the shield wasn’t much but it provided some life leech or other buffs. Someone like Symmetra or a Sentry body hero (I can’t think of a protoss character that can fit a sentry design). Also someone like Sombra can be a silence specialist support.
On a side note, maybe if Blizzard is willing to introduce neutral creep in the ‘jungle’ or having a weather and day/night system, they can have a larger ground to introduce support heroes that has mechanics revolving around this. Maybe someone who can change the day to night and thus empower night heroes or something like that.
I have a Tank concept with that.
Maybe. But keep in mind that Rag almost became this an maybe he didn’t switch roles.
Or maybe Rag not becoming the Core-Hero what pushed him out of the Specialist role.
Or the fact that he fitted others.
Tass’ shields were known to be troublesome. I don’t think it’ll return.
We might get more Supports. It’s not impossible to create one.
But it’s hard, and too much of a gimmick.
I love the role but let’s not force it.
Even worse, a support hero can easily have balance issues not with their kit in a vacuum, but how their kit synergizes with other heroes. The example most people use is old Tassadar, where his kit made certain heroes just too strong (Tracer), that those heroes had to remain in an underpowered state otherwise the combo would be absolutely broken.
We already see that in a way with Abathur and AA heroes such as Samuro or Illidan, Medivh and dive heroes, or Zarya with heroes that have mobility issues such as Garrosh or Arthas.
Making a support hero demands a lot more care and balance since they’re usually entirely unique and out of the box. Think of it like… food. Bruisers are street food, much easier to make and there’s little to do wrong with them. Healers and Tanks are your typical high end retaurant menu items that demand ingenuity to seem different than your typical food. Support is wagyu beef. I’m watching too many cooking shows.
Edit: Assassins are omelets. Except for Probius, it’s more of a century egg.
We already had 4 possible support kits listed