When WOW released arenas, it was immensely popular by a select community, but it was ultimately bad for the game and the devs said it was probably a mistake. And it wasn’t necessarily popular because it was fun, to some it was, but it was just a far lower barrier to entry to a game to get pvp rewards, and even then, 3’s and especially 5’s had population issues. Battlegrounds pvp was just more accessible to allowing more diversity of players and opening up the gameplay beyond just kills with objectives. Arena pvp shut out a lot of classes and specs that weren’t great at that specific mode and devolved down to chasing people around pillars, something you would rarely ever have to deal with in world pvp or BGs.
Then people started demanding more balance for each individual bracket, oh 2’s should have this, and it’s just a mess, and though you can balance for different modes, you’ve just created this convoluted mess and fidelity confusion on what the game is. (Wait, does X do this, no it does Y in Z mode.)
This wouldn’t be a bad idea in a temporary brawl like they used to do that requires minimal modifications and where we have zero expectation of balance, but as a real mode that requires such a huge overhaul in the way the OP describes, Phaseshifter is right, it is quite literally a different game. ARAM was just something quick a dev did on their own time. It’s just a single lane map using the same exact assets and balance.
In your opinion. Some ideas are just not great and warrant criticism. Heck, even good ideas are open to scrutiny. And believe it or not, people giving reasons why this might not be a great idea actually IS discussion. You often have this strange compulsion that YOU get to decide what is worthy of discussion. You don’t.
I mean listen to yourself, you’re asking people to ignore the elephant in the room.
I don’t know where you’re coming up with this because you’re not making any sense. You stated that games tend to lose interest when the game isn’t balanced around them yet the modes that the game is actually balanced around are the most unpopular. Ranked has very long queue times and Unranked literally is dead.
Now yes of course, if you want to say that the above is a straw man to argue my point instead of directly looking at 10v10 modes vs 2v2/3v3 modes then I feel like you don’t want to address that what you said isn’t entirely true at its core. Just like how ARAM is not balanced around doesn’t make it a mode that will have players lose interest because we literally see the opposite. It was just an example of why what you said isn’t true. You’re stating that I’m ignoring that because I gave an example? Seems odd.
How are you so sure that a 2v2 or 3v3 mode would be unpopular? What evidence do you have that supports that statement? I have shown you that just because something isn’t balanced around doesn’t mean it will be unpopular and I gave you evidence (ARAM/QM) and you are saying its a straw man? I guess telling someone they don’t understand something is the way to win an argument huh?
Sorry, but you will never have an actual discussion that fit your criteria of what a discussion should be when you’re trying that with a troll… in case you haven’t seen it for yourself.
Well two things… one, Phaseshifter did not seem like they wanted to have a discussion either and seemed to just dismiss the idea as the first reply. Two, not all of us are able to create a new game because we are not developers or even know how… that being said, how else do you expect people to implement things? Everything starts as an idea and then given to the people to make it happen. Letting Blizzard work on the idea is the only way it will ever become something or ever be implemented. Its the first step. Hots and pretty much every other game started out as a rough draft idea. You who studies literature should know the purpose of a rough draft. Yes, if you’re given an essay assignment it should be done by you and you alone should build on your first draft but I think you’re smart enough to establish the difference between that and this forum. Also keep in mind that the OP stated it was translated.
You expect an idea to be presented as a polished, finished product? Your expectations are way too high. Seeing how this user has 4 posts they might have taken time to come up with this idea and decided to put the idea into a forum to see if people can build on it. Sad that the first reply completely shut it down with seemingly no desire to try to ask questions or what not to learn more about the vision the OP has. If that’s not standard forum etiquette then I fear I have too high of expectations for you people.
As for the rest of what you said it feels like you’re trying to say my perception of the situation is wrong because I am looking for it to be a certain way so I can complain about it. I’m so tired of that bs from you too. You aren’t going to be able to gaslight me into thinking I’m looking for things to complain about and therefore want to steer any discussion into fitting into it. Its not bias. I have had discussions with both you, Phaseshifter and others where we can at least be on the same page. Now if every discussion we’ve had showed us completely unable to come to any sort of agreement then sure I would believe that I had some bias against the lot of you… but seeing as that’s not the case, its rather stupid to claim I am saying these things out of bias.
I have just noticed that a lot of people on this forum quickly dismissed ideas due to “Devs are gone and there’s no one to implement it” and I just wanted to address that that statement shouldn’t be someone’s first reply to a topic. I guess I should ask this directly, but based on what Phaseshifter said do you really believe he was looking for discussion? I don’t. Stating there is “no way it can happen” doesn’t really seem like a response that leads to a discussion. While yes, OP didn’t seem to interested in a discussion after that, what you’re saying is basically “well they didn’t do it so why should I?” and that’s a very childish way to look at things. You may know that some of what I say applies to the OP too and I’m not saying he’s free of fault, just that I can sympathize with his response, at least the part about being open to discussion.
You are such a clown dude and I don’t know where you’re getting this bias bs from or maybe its you just not understanding what I’m saying. You’re saying I “ignored” things but I haven’t. The reason I mentioned the forum being this way is because it is this way. They do things like this all the time. You’re blind if you can’t see that, or at least don’t want to admit it. And then the audacity to try to say I’m being hypocritical is rich. I have not sat here and pushed any agenda of “the forums are so bad” which you believe is my bias based on disagreements I’ve had with many regulars here. Perhaps what you’re claiming I am doing is what you’re doing yourself. Its not the first time I’ve been ad hominem’d by someone based on activity in my other threads. You must think I hate this forum and sit here trying to show others its a horrible place to be. If that’s what you think then let me tell you you’re wrong.
You might also remember that its not the first time I’ve called someone out for saying pointless things in a thread just because they feel the right to. And if I didn’t say it then, I’ll say it now. Just because you can say something doesn’t mean you should. I only said something in this thread because it honestly sucks to think about an idea and then have it be given no chance because some prick decided to say that it isn’t worth talking about.
Also, just to be clear, your first reply to me was explaining how a mode that isn’t balanced around wouldn’t work as it would become unpopular. I disputed that by giving examples and then you’re going saying I’m ignoring things… which makes me believe you are just trying to find ways to make me feel wrong and its sad you always resort to saying people misread, or ignored, or have bias just because it differs from what you previously stated. Keep being hellbent on being right Xen but doing that kind of thing gets old and doesn’t work when you completely disregard my refutation of your statements and they are taken as bias and my own misunderstanding of my character. I hope one day you can see how harmful that alone has been to this forum and its probably one of the many reasons people are so toxic on this forum.
Your “opinion” isn’t an opinion. You stated everything as a fact. “There’s no way this can happen in a classic game” fits a factual statement better than an opinion. Nice try. You can say whatever you want, but it doesn’t mean you should, especially when what you say doesn’t have any value to add to a possible discussion. At least explain why you don’t believe so instead of just putting out baseless statements.
Also, remember when Volun attacked you in that one thread and the same thing I told him is the same thing I’m telling you? Why should it apply in that thread but not this one?
Point being there can still be balance for modes that aren’t the main mode the game was balanced around. You’re just explaining that other modes can be balanced around, so why not this new proposed mode? What makes that mode so much different than an established mode when there’s no evidence that a 3v3 or 2v2 mode would be unsuccessful?
What seems more feasable? To build on an already established engine and coding? Or coming up with it all from scratch? Essentially you were telling OP “go make this game yourself if you want to see it implemented” which is a very discouraging response. So good job there.
You mistake your freedom to do something and your ability to decide what should be said given the fact you can say what you want. I have the freedom to go and tell people how useless I think their ideas are but what purpose does that serve? What do you get from that? The fact people claim they can say what they want is an excuse to say things that are unproductive, rude, or just straight up not needed is sad. Sure, say what you want. It just seems dumb to waste that kind of energy than simply ignoring it. Also, seems hypocritical that you defend others saying what they want yet agreed with me when Volun attacked you… way to stay true to yourself.
Its not an opinion. The reason behind it really is unhelpful. If you believe that people shouldn’t be able to share their ideas because “it’ll never happen in the game’s current state” then this forum shouldn’t exist anymore. It does to share balancing updates but since there’s not any new content the purpose of it doesn’t exist under that logic. Now if you think people should be free to say what they want, that means expressions of ideas even if you disagree about them. I’m saying to ignore the elephant in the room because doing so leads to more productive discussions. No one is going to get on board with something if its not even given a chance. This thread showed that it wasn’t even given a chance based on it being stated it never will. Does that seem like it fits the purpose of a forum? Not to me.
I do agree that not everything is a good idea and they do warrant criticism. However you fail to realize that explaining to someone why it wouldn’t work is a better discussion than “its just not gonna work”. I asked why I didn’t think Phaseshifter thought it wouldn’t work, but just didn’t want the blanket response so commonly given in this forum which was “no devs”. Xen gave his reasoning as to why, which in his first post in this thread I argued against and people seemed to agree. He obviously didn’t, but that’s kind of how disagreements work.
I hope you’re smart enough not to mistake what I’m saying as “I think this mode is perfect and doable and people need to talk about it”. Its more that people should at least be open to discuss why something is unobtainable before the outright dismiss it, which is what happened here. Phase can say whatever he wants. You can say whatever you want. I’m not trying to say you can’t or that you should be attacked if you say what you want but again I feel like that’s how you take it. I just think people should be more open to discussing it, OP especially since its his idea. That aspect of this forum is gone and its because of things like this.
I really thought someone who would be able to understand that Morales’s grenade preventing the bloodthirsty Greymane from reacing the 2% health Jaina is just as valuable as healing Jaina so GM can’t kill her, would be able to understand the difference between ‘can’ and ‘should’. Also, when was it a bad thing that someone tells other to just be more decent? I guess if it makes you think introspectively and you’re a horrible person than I can see why you’d dislike that.
LoL, it is an opinion. I think it can be helpful to point out the limitations and expectations of what can happen and so many have done here. For some reason, you think it’s better to just indulge discussion in a very narrow manner in which you deem is acceptable even despite the big elephant.
I never said that you thought the mode was perfect lol. You’re just trying to dictate how the discussion unfolds because you think it should be that way when none of us are required to care what you think. People can say what they want to say, and you have too. As I’ve said before, I think many of your posts are low quality and has a stunning amount of assumptions and lack of deep thought, and they’re often not nice or productive either. I don’t prevent you from saying them lol. You are.
You can’t balance around QM, because the mode gives you random comps, on a random map and allows mirrors. I mean, you can randomly end up in an unwinnable scenario because your comp was completely countered by the opponents by chance. There’s no way to balance randomness. That’s why the game is mostly balanced around the competitive mode. That’s what every games do. HotS is not unique in that.
Every hero and ability have counterplay (Except Samuro) but you can’t choose to have that counterplay available for you in QM, since you don’t know what you’re facing. So sometimes a hero can run away with the game. There’s no way around that.
That was not the only thing I said. So I’m afraid that makes your statment incorrect.
You don’t get to decide what has value.
Dude, what is wrong with you? In the very reply I’m answering to, you JUST said that I gave an actual fact. Why the hell would you want me to explain something that you accept as a fact? Would you ever ask someone to explain why they believe that you need a heart to live?
That reply is completely illogical.
I don’t remember what you told him. But Volun is a [Censored] who goes around stalking and insulting people for no apparent reason. What does that have to do with me not believing this topic is realistic? When I start being a [Censored] and I get a long time topic shut down by my behavior, you can tell me the same thing.
Because it’s much more complex, and it would be ranked. That alone makes it impossible ImO. In a 2v2 mode some heroes become useless, and others become OP. There’s no way to balance for that and other modes at the same time. That’s why I said it requires a seperate game.
Ex: in a 2v2 environment, Zagara becomes a massive pain. And your team mate is always covered by theirs, so you can’t exactly gank her. But nerfing her is unrealistic, she already isn’t played much competitively.
It’s not discouraging. Unless OP is 85 years old, a game you believe in is a good personal project to have. My friend designed a game by being tought by various people he knows, and Guinsoo was still studying when he created DoTA. I don’t at all think it’s impossible. I don’t think OP should just assume that it’s impossible. I think it’s more discouraging if you say he/she can’t do it.
I didn’t defend anything. I pointed out an inconsistency. Xenterex didn’t insult anyone, so I can’t see any reason for him/her not to discuss with who he wants. It’s no loss to either of us anyway. It’s his time to use or waste. And it contradicted what you said about what the forum is for. I’m pretty sure you know that giving your opinion and insulting someone is not the same thing. So I really shouldn’t have to answer that.
If anyone is doing something reportable, they won’t be doing it for long. But you can’t police them for disagreeing with something, or for who they reply to.
Your brain capacity must be small if you think not dismissing an idea right off the bat with no reasoning is the same as indulging discussion. If someone is going to be told that their idea won’t work, it kind of begs the question “why won’t it work?”. I asked that, not the OP but I didn’t want the cookie cutter answer that’s always given and rather boring. Sorry if my disagreement of that as a good answer differs from your ability to accept that answer.
Nice straw man buddy but you missed the point. If you’re going to hyper focus on what I had in quotes means you don’t care to recognize the rest which is a huge problem with you. You pick one thing to attack and then use it as a counter argument. That only works on fools. I’ll explain the point because I know you dislike me repeating myself. What I meant by what was in quotes was to address the fact that you’re mistaking what I am saying by thinking people need to indulge discussion. I just think people shouldn’t be so quick to dismiss ideas, but I can see how you can confuse that with someone indulging in discussion. I don’t think all discussions should be indulged and certainly not when trolls are involved, which is what I had already mentioned to Xen.
You’re right, you don’t need to care what I think, and I don’t care if you don’t care. You’re not a reasonable person anyway so its not like me caring would make a difference. Of course you think my posts are low quality. You just don’t understand them, which is okay that’s for you to figure out. I could also say the same about you the way your arrogant mentality leads you to beat down and badger anyone who has ideals that differ from yours. Most of your posts against me have lacked any type of substance because with you it all boils down to ad hominem anyway so you can try to discredit me. Sorry I’m not weak enough to be affected by that like others who feel the need to put you on ignore. Your words fail to impress me and ad hominem is your trojan horse to get your point across.
My posts aren’t nice to you maybe, but that’s your fault. Maybe if you didn’t resort to insulting others to much people wouldn’t reciprocate that. You just lack the self awareness to realize it but its okay I’m not your shrink. Go on, say what you want. No one is stopping you. I’m not either. I just think people should be more willing to discuss things before completely dismissing them. Does that mean Phaseshifter can’t write what he wrote? Or you can’t write your disrespectful posts because I think you shouldn’t? No. You shouldn’t write anything if its not useful… but that doesn’t mean you can’t or I am stopping you. The fact you cant understand the duality that I support people speaking their mind while also advising that others should try to be productive first shows you have no ability to be open minded. You just want to say what you’re going to say and get mad when people say to think before you speak. Shows the type of character you have buddy.
This further demonstrates that popularity and balance are not equal. Something being balanced or not does not make it popular just how something being popular doesn’t mean its balanced. Ranked still exists but is unpopular despite being a more balanced mode. Hell, even UR still exists in game and its balanced around too. You can create a somewhat balanced mode where 3v3 would work. Of course there would have to be changes and sacrifices but its the same in ARAM. Heroes are taken out, abilities taken out… but it still works fine. QM has changes too, like the ability to allow mirrors. The proposed mode doesn’t need to be 100% balanced. This game isn’t even 100% balanced itself as there are still somewhat OP heroes like Stukov and Johanna which are banned in a lot of ranked matches.
The dismissal of this idea due to the fact it lacks the ability to ever be balanced without evidence to support it is dumb. Maybe you just don’t want to talk about it… okay I’ll accept that, but it also makes me question why you’d say its not obtainable instead of just saying you don’t like the proposal.
Saying its a new game, not a mode, is not an opinion.
Saying there’s no way it can happen in a classic game, is not an opinion.
Saying they’ll have to create the game themselves for it to ever have a chance of existing are not opinions.
The closest thing they are is assumptions, and pretty baseless ones without any type of discussion as to why.
Okay so what value does outright dismissing the idea without any elaboration bring? If you were proposing an idea wouldn’t you want to know why it won’t work? Or are you just okay with someone telling you no and leaving it at that?
Do you know the difference between a factual statement and an opinion?
If I say I don’t like the color orange, its a statement of opinion because there’s no reason someone can’t like that color because I don’t. A fact would be something like stating someone can’t live without a brain. There can be false factual statements. I never said what you said was true, just that it was stated as a fact, not an opinion. Just because something is a fact doesn’t mean its true. Its just grammatically different than the definition of an opinion. I never accepted your statements as true because there’s no evidence to support what you said is true.
Thanks for calling it illogical because you don’t get it. Says a lot.
Because you and him shared the ideal that no one can tell you what you can and can’t say. I defended you because I don’t believe he should have done that, and you agreed, or liked my posts or whatever. Now when its turned on you you’re doing what he’s doing. You just didn’t know exactly what he said because you probably never saw them, but I’m sure you don’t like people telling you things when they didn’t have to go out of their way to do so. Doesn’t feel nice, especially when there’s nothing to back up what they said. You notice it when its done to you, but not when you do it to others.
It doesn’t just have to be 2v2. It could be 3v3 which is much more feasible. And to be quite honest based on certain comps, some heroes feel useless in 5v5 modes too. That issue isn’t unique to a 3v3 or 2v2 mode.
Its discouraging because instead of creating a mode within this game which already comes with 90% of the framework you’re point them to go create it from scratch. Obviously nothing is being done on Blizzard’s end but we can’t see the future and don’t know if that’ll turn around. Its much easier to announce an idea you have then to spend years learning a trade just to create an idea you have. If I had an idea for a game mode I’d first post it where it could gain traction before I began the process of trying to attempt it myself. Yes, he could do it himself, but that’s a much higher mountain than posting it here first so if someone liked the idea on Blizzard’s end it could lead to something more. That’s one of the main reasons the skin idea forum exists. They give their small ideas and Blizzard takes it and does what they can if enough people like it. This thread was essentially dismissed on the first post… How is that not discouraging?
How is what I said inconsistent? Have I ever said people aren’t allowed to speak their mind? No. However its what everyone seems to see. I simply said ideas shouldn’t be dismissed right from the start without some type of explanation. I never said you couldn’t or shouldn’t have the ability to say what you want. I don’t know how that’s such a hard concept for people to grasp and it makes me lose faith in the intelligence of people.
Regarding Volun and that other thread, you agreed that the salt mines or whatever should be free from criticism because its a “safe place” which kind of limits what should be said there does it not? You enjoyed the ability to post there without criticism because its frowned upon in that thread for people to speak their minds if it criticizes or attacks others. Here, in this thread, you’re voicing that you feel like people should be able to speak their minds. Here I am, saying you probably shouldn’t say something if it ends up being unproductive and now you’re disagreeing with me on it.
I have stayed true to my beliefs of how people should act on here. I said people shouldn’t say mean or critical things in a thread that isn’t meant for it just like how I think people shouldn’t do that here if what they say doesn’t add substance or anything to the thread. Same idea but different situation. That’s why I’m saying you’re flip flopping.
When I wrote you are ignoring stuff, this is an example. There are gredations between “test map” and “polished product”. Making an extreme of what I wrote is another form of strawmanning the post.
If someone wants support, than having more than just words is a way to get it, there are loads of examples of this. Leaving something to Blizz is not the only way something can be done if people want something done.
I used “test map” and Autochess as examples, but they aren’t the only options and no, someone doesn’t have to program a game to show their ideas.
For one, limited-player games can already be done in custom. Replays could be posted and say “we had fun playing this and think others could too”.
Other HotS-based ideas have been done on starcraft 2 and don’t need to work as a “game” and can be made as a movie, or screen shot or whatever. If people aren’t going to ask for specifics, I’m not going to list all the possibilities, nor do they stop existing because I didn’t mention them.
The idea that only select things can realize production (these days) undermines your addressing me regarding drafts: a draft is still a way to show an idea that seeks refinement where it can get it. It is simply not just to devs or publishers or CEO’s to see something realized. HotS isn’t even exclusive to HotS as that starcraft 2 fandev exists that did make a game.
Innovation doesn’t just come from people tossing out ideas, they usually have to do a +1. Dota exists because people collectively worked on something. Autochess exists because someone else made another derivative idea; touch-screen technology exists because Star Trek. The show/movies didn’t need “polished” or functional technology, but having an extra way to convey the idea does get others to think “how would we make that work” and they make changes over time.
Regarding your other concern (balance/popularity,) the form you are arguing isn’t the same as what I posted and you’re ending up with a fallacy of the inverse.
A number of games have tried reduced players in an “arena” mode and they become problematic because key aspects of the core gameplay aren’t adjusted for that mode. While aram and qm have some changes for the mode, they also aren’t trying to dynamically adjust hero stats from one mode to the next. That doesn’t mean it won’t work for HotS, but, it does mean there are examples of similar games that had low interest become that much lower. Brawls are already an example of select deviations losing interest and/or demanding more changes than the devstaff can/will do, esp since HotS shifted the role balance around “Tanks” and “healers” because the game was built for 5v5 skirmishes; in environments lower than that, it’s going to spike the value of select attributes and likely create bigger limitations that detract from the appeal of a mini-HotS arena.
When suggestions don’t have a +1 for inspiring “innovation” and they are something that has demonstrably not worked before for the primary company and it’s competitor, it doesn’t leave much to inspire bothering with something that, honestly, the devs probably already tried, but didn’t implement when the game had devs.
Thus, these things usually need more than “please make” to get support. There’s an oversaturation of ideas on Steam, and I’m not going to out time/money in all of them, there’s a need for a +1 gimmick of sorts to show appeal, draw inspiration, and so on. Otherwise we’d probably see all the “fun sponges@ removed and replaced with 200++ other heroes.
Since that’s not the case, then there’s priorities and opportunities at hand. Bumping the topic with another reply gives it a chance to ‘discuss’ something, but even if someone is just hoping to pass an idea long for someone else to take it and run, they’d still want a + something, even if it’s cat meme with broken spelling.
I agree with your sentiment. The idea in this thread is a fine hypothetical, problems arise when someone is demanding and expecting an instant change or requesting that a feature be added now, without acknowledging the fact that Hots is not in active development.
I still stand by my comment that I’d prefer the “Escape from Braxis” brawl to return, rather than the OP’s suggestion. Even when Hots was in its prime, I’m not sure if the OP’s suggestion would be feasible, as URD and Team League proved there were never enough players to support those game modes, let alone adding another mode as suggested here.
*Welp, I was responding to your comment directly under mine, I hadn’t noticed things somehow got heated. Again, I don’t think your argument is unfair or incorrect, it does stifle discussion when the response is “Hots is in maintenance, this change can’t happen.”
The trouble is, that statement is true for now. Even if people refrain from pointing out that reality, the lack of any true development has already stifled discussion, or at least discouraged people from posting at all. These forums are becoming more and more niche (dead), with every passing day.
You still have a good point, there is basically nothing to discuss if the response is always; “nope, dead game”, to every post like this one.
Oh my god I didn’t ignore that. In my replies to Phaseshifter I address exactly that. Essentially OP was told that they have to either make it themselves or it won’t happen. I countered that argument by stating its much easier to post your idea on a forum then it is to start creating the content by yourself. His hope probably isn’t to do it himself but to let people who are much better equipped accomplish his goal. Its the smartest way to go about doing it because instead of taking years to learn about how to code and create video games he can just propose his idea and hope that someone (Blizzard) would support it so he doesn’t have to spend all that time and energy just to find out years later that no one likes it. I do think OP could do a lot more things if they wanted more traction/attention but there’s nothing wrong with making a thread to see if people would be interested in the concept.
Its much better for someone to completely disagree with him now so he doesn’t waste all that time and energy first… but when he did just that, he got people saying it wouldn’t work with no explanation as to why, which is the main thing I’m addressing.
Perhaps this post also was meant for him to gain feedback on his ideas. Maybe? Idk. Its just my assumption but feedback requires explanation where none was given until I said something. Notice how had I said nothing, zero discussion would have probably taken place. After I did, yourself, Phaseshifter and others chimed in with more than “It just wont work”. This forum serves a lot of purposes and despite the ability to speak your mind people should come here with the willingness to actually have a discussion. That’s the main point I’m trying to make and I do not see a reason I’m gaining so much heat for it. Is it because people don’t like others being arbitrary? Clearly lol.
Its not different. The game mode can either be balanced separately or not balanced separately but with evidence that a mode that isn’t balanced around being popular shows that popularity and balance aren’t always equal. This mode would need some type of balance seeing as its a competitive mode but who’s to say the mode can’t be decently balanced just because its 3v3? There’s not been other game modes that are 3v3 in this game to support that hypothesis. There’s also not evidence that it will work either which is why explaining further why you think it can or can’t is useful besides your vague statements that it didn’t work with other game modes with other games.
I don’t even know where you’re getting that information from. You don’t know if the hots devs have tried something like this you’re just applying what you think into assumptions. This is why I called for discussion about it because then you can enlighten others with actual resources backing up what you’ve said. So far you haven’t shown an example of anything so what we just need to take your word for it? No. If you want to claim something doesn’t work due to precedents not working… have something to show for it at least. Otherwise its just hearsay.
I hope you don’t think I am ignorantly defending the proposed mode simply because I want to be different… but my purpose was actually to inspire people to try to have a discussion first rather than outright dismissing an idea without any good reasoning or though as to why.
Its just been taken up the rear by some because it infringes on their right to say what they want which explains a lot about those particular individuals. I think I have made my point and gotten it across to some and I’m happy with that. I’m not going to sit here and waste more time trying to defend this mode because that wasn’t my initial purpose anyway. It was just to help advocate for discussion since people started claiming things with nothing else to say which I think is wrong. If OP really wants a discussion about it they can do that themselves. I’m not the creator of the idea so I am not going to blindly defend it.
I personally think its a cool idea and I’m interested in how OP wants to make it work and wants to know how they envision its implementation further but idk if they’re going to do that so oh well.
Yes, I get that, but there’s nothing wrong with discussing it anyway. There are plenty of other threads out there that propose ideas though and its not like the players of this game don’t acknowledge the state of the game. I think its more useful to share your ideas anyway because it might inspire other people or maybe even Microsoft/Blizzard to do something about it. Shutting it down right from the gate denies it from ever getting that far, when there’s not much to back up why it was initially denied anyway.
I’m also not naive enough to believe this one thread will break the chains holding down hots. I completely understand its unrealistic to think that way. I just think its already been said enough and further pushes away people’s excitement or interest in the game itself. For a couple years now, this forum has needed more positive posts with some type of substance and its crazy that those types of posts are dismissed quicker than a troll thread would be. Its not fiery drama of course, so to some who come here for that its going to be boring… but as someone who has loved this game since its inception, which I feel many can feel the same, posts that inspire that type of thing should at least have the chance to be discussed. Sadly troll posts gain more traction than these types of posts and because its been said many times that these forums are dying due to lack of new content it seems dumb that when people are introduced to a new idea… its dismissed on the first post. Its rather annoying to see because while this forum is bleeding due to lack of substance its branded on it again and again the state of hots when discussion hurts absolutely no one.
What I probably am naive enough about is still believing this forum has the ability to be a useful place. I definitely put too much faith in some of this forum’s members, not all, but definitely too much for some.
Very glad at least someone appreciates my sentiment.
XIv, instead of going back and forth arguing semantics and trying to convince people of saying something “better” than what they are saying. Why aren’t you doing what you say should be done and discussing the topic with the OP?
Well, I’m not expecting something unrealistic or as mawkish as a Kevin Costner film, but I think Xiv does have a point. I’ve often been a bit dismissive when ideas come up like this, as I’m usually a pragmatic person, and in so, accept that Hots is in maintenance and big changes are unlikely.
Having said that, I didn’t expect there would the MM change for ARAM, let alone all the bug fix patches and minor, but even less expected balance changes.
I agree, and point well taken. I’ve been guilty of disregarding some interesting (but often too ambitious) proposals for Hots, I’ll try to work on changing that moving forward.
It isn’t just over semantics. There’s a plague this forum currently has which destroys the purpose of the forum and most of the people on this forum would agree that there’s a lack of interesting conversations. The huge irony all of you 3 seemed to miss is that by doing what you’re doing (dismissing ideas without even thinking about them and shoving the sad elephant in the room in everyone’s face whenever a new idea or topic is presented) further kills this forum. You’re too blinded by “I can say what I want and no one can stop me” to realize that. It just so happened that I came in this thread and decided to speak up about it because I saw it happen.
In return, discussion was made during/after a few lengthy arguments with you 3, two of which were semi productive and one was just a jerk being a jerk.
I defended some of the OP’s points because the responses to my posts did not sway my view.
The main reason I haven’t discussed this directly with the OP is they never replied to me or anything I’ve said. I only received likes. Do you want me to do so when they clearly would respond if they had the desire to?
You must be thinking “see they didn’t want to have a discussion anyway, so why blow this up?” Well, because if it wasn’t this thread, it would have been another. I got my point across to anyone who reads this and if the OP decides to reply, I’ll gladly discuss this idea with them. Until then I’d rather not waste my time saying things for the sake of saying things.
As far as replying to any of you 3 to further discuss this topic, I have already said my thoughts and I don’t think that conversation would ever come to any sort of agreement given the people involved.
Xiv, the one who doesn’t want to discuss this is you.
You decided the topic was dead, and in so doing have conducted yourself in ways that ‘kill’ the topic. More than once now you have go on that you’re not going to continue this further which… kills discussion.
You seem to have set yourself apart by thinking you can blame “the forum”. You are “the forum”. The posting portion of this forum is comprised of specific people, not some amalgamation of generalizations to suit bad strawmen. What makes a ‘discussion’ is people actually exchanging ideas, and not repeatably trying to correct misconceptions and falsehoods.
Your ‘point’ seems to have gone over your own head and you’re giving yourself a false positive for it by crippling ‘discussion’. You being an issue for you didn’t incentive more participation here, it simply drew more-of-the-same when someone 'troll’s a topic. That’s part of why there’s a high post-to-view ratio similarly to the ai-posted topic.
You aren’t vested in the idea itself, and others aren’t either. That’s part of why other similar suggestions – made when the forum was ‘alive’ – don’t get much attention either.
I’m honestly not surprised that you’re reflecting this back on me. It’s as if you didn’t read my previous posts. I had plenty of discussion in this thread but all it got me in return were insults and someone telling me I am biased or that I’m the issue. I discussed and replied to all 3 of you (who disagreed with my sentiment) concerning things directly applicable to the subject matter, you just didn’t agree with what I said. Why on earth would I continue down that road with people who clearly refuse to be wrong and find ways to turn it back on me? It’s utterly useless and since none of you know how to agree to disagree, why should I subject myself to that kind of crap? I’ve already discussed what I thought could make the mode viable and all you’ve seemed to reply to me is how I’m the issue.
I do not post on this forum as much as you so I don’t feel like I am a very large part of this forum when others have tens of thousands of posts. I am not the whole of this forum, and even if I was, I am not one who sits here and dismisses things without even looking into why or thinking about them. Everything you just said about specifically this is huge bull crap to again, try to flip this back on me instead of have some introspection into your own behavior.
My point hasn’t gone over my head but you seem to be unable to grasp the concept of “I can, but does it mean I should?”. You’re projecting your own inability to understand that because its something you seem to enjoy doing. You do it everywhere, not just this thread. Even when replying to trolls you go on these huge rants about how they don’t listen, how they don’t understand and how they don’t read. Its actually pretty embarrassing that you attack others for this sort of thing yet can’t realize you do it yourself. Good job there bozo.
Others might not be, but I literally said I like the idea myself. Another example of you not reading my posts. You might not like the idea, and that’s okay. Its your opinion. But you’re wrong for putting words in my own mouth instead of reading what I’m saying. Here, I’ll even quote it for you.
Oh yes, lack of interest is totally why they don’t. I mean just have a scroll through the posts and you’ll see a substantial amount of posts that all talk about how there’s no devs and so proposed ideas are just hopeless wishes. How do you expect positivity to come from that? Are you okay with this forum being a negative cesspool of depression because nothing on here matters anymore due to the devs not working on hots anymore?What a depressing acceptance. It doesn’t have to be a sad place if people were more willing to have a discussion instead of feel the uncontrollable need to say what everyone here already knows. You either just don’t accept it or it goes over your head… but I digress.
You obviously won’t agree with me on this but I think one of the major problems on this forum are people like you 3. And this thread is a perfect example as to why I think that.
