SUGGESTION: start of match AFK timer decrease

General Discussion
1

TL;DR:
In order to minimize the negative impact an AFKer has at the start of the game, have the AI take over for the AFK player when the gates open, if they have taken no actions. Instead of waiting until several minion waves have been summoned.

This is a proposal that is aimed to limit the negative impact of people who are AFK when the game starts, and do not return before the gates open. This would be done by causing the AFK timer to be reduced to the the duration between the first hero spawning, and the gates opening. So the AI would be able to get into or near a lane with the first minion wave.

This allows teams that utilize pings (to control where the AI player moves) to not be put at a disadvantage solely due to the other team having more players in the stage of the game where it matters the most.

It would also mean that players who took “just a bit to long” to return to their keyboard, after leaving for any reason, would end up closer to the lane, or in the lane. Meaning they can get right into making meaningful plays and interacting with teammates and enemy players.

Currently, based on my experience, the AI waits a generous amount of time before picking talents at each tier, but I have not confirmed this is the case at level 1. IF this is not the case, this would need to be changed to prevent this suggestion from causing large issues for players who are just AFK just a few seconds to long.

This suggestion would not change how the “Normal” AFK timer works, or how AFK players are punished.

At the end here, I Would like to also request a message “alt-click the AI player to have them follow you” or a similar message pop up when a player disconnects, or if an AI player has not been pinged for a long amount of time—say every minute or two.

original post:

TL:DR: Make it so anyone AFK from gaming finishing loading to the gates opened instantly have an AI take over for them.  Instead of now, where it takes another minute or two from gates opening for this to happen.
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**This is a proposal/suggestion about changing the AFK timer _AT THE START OF THE GAME_ to have an AI take over an AFK players heroes earlier, due to numerous benefits it would provide for the gameplay experience.**

_So, this feels to me like I've got a wall of dense text that is hard to parse... I plan to go back and rewrite this when I'm 100% sober.  Sorry if it is impossible to read/comprehend._

Currently, the AFK timer at the start of the game (and throughout the game) takes about 100-150 seconds from a player going AFK to the AI taking over.

**The suggested change:**
-If a player has imputed _no keyboard/mouse actions_ between when the game starts, and when the gates open, have the AI immediately take control of that players hero.

**things this change is not:**
-this is not a change to how the AFK timer works in anything outside the start of game.

**Issues of current system:**
-you are down a player for the very start of the game, which is when it matters most.  Early soak is super important.  AND, even if the player returns 15 seconds after the gates open, you might have missed a whole wave of early game EXP.
-If there are ever multiple AFK players, sometimes the AI can take so long to kick in that the enemy team can get a substantial advantage in a way that you can do nothing about.

**How this helps things**
-If a player returns a couple of seconds after the gate opens, they're already into a lane.
-If a player never returns, you've got an AI That you can micro-manage by having them follow a player, or leave them in a lane earlier.
-If a player returns a little late (After gates opened) their hero is already getting to, or in a lane.  Which means that you get the player in the actions sooner.

There is one large thing this concept that this idea lives and dies on: **How quickly does the AI pick talents?**.  I have often noticed, both watching talents, and in personal disconnections, that the AI often waits a level or two before picking talents for later talent tiers.  **I do not know if this is the case at level 1.**  If this is the case at level 1, I think this change is purely positive.  If it is not, there may be problems that would require additional development time to make this not punish a player who *just made it back* as the gates opened.
14 Likes
2

I couldn’t agree more.
This would help at least a little with leaver/reconnect problems.

3 Likes
3

I just to make sure this is understood:
This is only about addressing players who are AFK at the start of the game. And is an effort to make the AFK have less negative impact on your team.

I tried to keep this idea/suggestion simple in scope, as I think anything that goes into much more depth of “improving” the AFK functionality of the game would take loads of effort.

a reconnecting player who disconnected in loading should have an AI instantly applied. This AI is (meant to be) disabled shortly before the reconnect is caught up.

And someone who leaves is (as far as I know) treated as a disconnected player, where the AI takes over near instantly.

4

I agree. Nothing to bad then waiting for a miracle.
And if they never joined. Or afk in the first 3 min. The afk penalty should be higher

5

While I agree it probably needs to be a higher penalty, I do just wish to point out this has nothing to do with AFK penalty.

Just trying to keep the thread on topic.

1 Like
6

I believe it’s 3 minutes, and it’s way too long. Should be instant bot takeover if there is no player input for 30-45 seconds (however bot wont choose any talents at all, in the event the player reconnects).

7

Issue with this is if someone lags at start then gets a bad talent choice. Level 1 is v important for some builds/character. Soaking can be covered by moving someone and doing 1-1-2 for a little bit

8

I am of the opinion that it is better to be down a player than to have an AI player on your team.

1 Like
9

But the faster AI takes over the faster it will start to feed D:

2 Likes
10

When a player disconnects, the AI tends to wait a level or two (or maybe it’s based on time. I’m not sure) before picking talents.

I did note in the Original Post that the idea has a big flaw if the AI doesn’t wait a bit if it takes over at level 1, for picking talents.

Late game, if you don’t have anyone that can ping the AI and keep it in a good position–sure, absolutely.

But the AI is pretty good in early lane, and even just pinging a hero like Li Li, and having that extra heal is pretty valuable versus having an AFK hero…

Learn to ping the AI and play safe–it will generally also play safe.

If you are unwilling to ping the AI, that is a separate issue entirely.
And yes, I do think the AI still needs massive improvements.

1 Like
11

I disagree with the proposal. Since early game matters little. If the person has a personal emergency I would much rather they are AFK 30 or 60 seconds and comeback to finish the rest of the game than have the terrible AI take over for them. Especially if the hero they choose is not AI friendly and will literally feed the enemy team 3 deaths in the first 2 minutes…

That said I have been a long campaigner for an “autopilot” feature that players can turn on to explicitly change themselves to AI mode for brief moments of AFK. In this mode the hero focuses on safe play avoiding team fights and prioritizing defence and soak. Real life being like it is one cannot avoid ending up having to do something in the middle of some matches no matter how well one plans them. This feature helps smooth this period of time over. Of course turning it on should not stop the AFK timer and should inform all allies (not enemies) that it is turned on and the hero should be susceptible to AI pings.

1 Like
12

I think they changed it so now it’s coded that the player can pick their talents when they get back.
I don’t know if this was just a glitch or not but it happened to me, when I got back from a DC I was 3 tiers behind but it let me pick all 3

1 Like
13

I’ve clarified (imo) the original post, while putting the original post in a code box.

Because the fact that a spoiler isn’t in the UI, and isn’t an an obvious [spoiler] tag is infuriating. I would greatly appreciate it if someone reminded me how to make spoilers work here… Sadly it is not covered in the pinned topic about syntax and whatsnot for this forum.

I’m 99% sure it is in a comment on that thread, but… it’s time for me to get some sleep.

onto the replies:

I have reconnected (and checked on allied AI) and seen it not pick for 2-3 levels before, as you say.

But I’ve also seen it pick some talents on long reconnects, although I have not had one of those for a few months. How recent was your experience?

If the enemy notices you’re down a person, and pressures, it does. You give up soak, or wind up being overpowered.

Ping them. Have them follow you. Play safe. You get another hero in lane, and the AI is not running off solo.

If the AI is dying that much in the first few minutes, you and your team are not managing the AI correctly, or are being severely outplayed.

The former is something that is at least in part due to AI control being obfuscated,
–Where the HotS team needs a way to communicate it to casual players better–
and the latter being an issue that isn’t just about the AI.

1 Like
14

This doesn’t address the more pressing matter…which is the team that has an AI player is at a fundamental disadvantage compared to the other team, regardless of when the AI controlled Hero takes over.

I like your idea if it will only be applied to QM and Unranked.

However, for Ranked, all remaining players should be allowed to leave the match safely without penalty if an AI Hero enters the game to replace an AFK teammate.

1 Like
15

There are always going to be AFK players, sadly.
Making them cause less negative impact is a positive change.

There have been a few times I’ve welcomed someone leaving, but, those have been few and far between, and almost before they broke the AI. (I think something like 3-4 times before they broke it, and once after)

IF your team wants to play through it, this change would be beneficial in ranked play.

I’ve been in groups of 4 before, and we would have stuck it out and tried to win regardless of our 5th leaving.

So while I agree that there needs to be forgiveness (and harsh punishment for people who AFK after the draft) in the case of such events, I don’t see how this suggestion would negatively impact ranked.

1 Like
16

My experience was this week, defintely very recent
I DC’d at level 9 and got back just as my team got 16 and found myself picking all three, but it was so quick to 16 I could safely say it only stayed from picking for 2

17

This does not help at all. For example the AI will randomly decide to AFK or suicide itself no matter the state of the ping against them. I play with a lot of AI, I know.

18

Excluding the AI being braindead about camps, I’ve not found the AI to exhibit this behavior over the last 10 or so games I have had an AI player and was suitable to play them, when playing against people.

But, the reality is that without some insight from a website that uploads many replays, or the HotS team, it is impossible to really make a call.

1 Like
20

How does the AI Falstad know to Barrel Roll through the terrain wall to steal the boss cap at the exact moment that your Medivh uses Leyline Seal on the enemy team?

How does the AI Jaina know to lane and then join us to smash a Siege camp right before the objective spawns, on the way to the objective?

How does the AI Stitches know to hook the enemy Sgt. Hammer into our Uther’s HoJ stun with our whole team nuking said Sgt. Hammer?

How does the AI Zeratul know to Void Prison the only path leading towards the objective at the last possible moment, to gain the most uptime while we channel the tribute?

How does the AI Muradin know where to land its Dwarf Toss when it has a Kael’thas Living Bomb applied to it, when our team is semi-clumped outside of the towers?

How does the AI Dehaka know to Burrow to the center of the map on Dragonshire to get the DK, a few seconds before we cap bottom shrine so we don’t waste time?

How does the AI Lt. Morales know when to use its Medivac, and wait for the last teammate, to fly to & grab the second boss on Warhead Junction before the other team rotates?

How does the AI Brightwing know to Polymorph the enemy Anub’arak right before he moves in to cast Cocoon?

How does the AI Rexxar know when to lane vs take camps vs teamfight? At appropriate times?

How does the AI Deckard know to set up back-line potions on Infernal Shrines so our team can rotate in and out?

How does the AI Nazeebo know when & where to place his Zombie Wall, in relation to his teammate, who is getting charged by a Butcher?

How does the AI Murky know where to accurately place his Egg on specific maps, for maximum effectiveness?

The answer is, they don’t. Because there is no ability to communicate plans to the AI teammate that rely on synergy between 2 or more Heroes, or plans that require more than one combo synergy. This is why teams in Ranked play, that have an AI teammate, are at a disadvantage.

21

Lol got this right, you can vote too remake at 2:30. As long as the person never joined. Only person that gets a loss is the guu that didnt connect( which i dont like but it has tok be like that too stop late dodges)