I was playing alot of valeera and really liked how ‘vanish’ breaks butchers charge.
I then switched to tyrande to practice heals and noticed that her ult ‘shadowstalk’ does not break butchers charge.
This indicates inconsistencies between stealth status’s from different heroes. I would expect butcher to lose sight from any source of stealth whilst he is charging
an interesting interaction at least.
The charge applies revealed and will continue till they are no longer revealed, in that case Unreveable comes to mind.
Vanish grants unreveable for a second.
Medivh’s Dust of Disappearance grants unreveable for 0.5 seconds.
Brightwing’s Invisible Friends grants unreveable for 0.5 seconds.
Nova’s Ghost Protocol grants unreveable for 0.5 seconds.
Shadowstalk does not.
Despite having (cast) stealth functionality, it doesn’t behave similarly to casted stealth on other heroes
But as op already said isn’t it inconsistent? Would it be problematic, if Tyrande’s Shadowstalk works like the other abilitys you mentioned? I think not.
ah yep, didnt think of unrevealable.
I feel like shadowstalk should get the same treatment
This reminds me back when azmo had perma laser and I complained that didn’t stop targeting me when I vanish as valeera. Then I was told the ability was called “all shall burn” not “only the visible shall burn”
No, Shadowstalk is a global Ult, giving every team member stealth for 10 seconds and 390 HP as heal over time.
The Ult would be busted when combined with unrevealable for even a short time
Sure it would be really powerful, but busted? I mean I don’t mind, if Tyrande gets more love from the devs as one of the rather niche healer picks and I don’t see, how this change would break the game tbh.
I don’t mind either. She is in a terrible condition now, being the worst healer at the moment.
I would appreciate it, when she gets moved back to support with a bunch of new talents to play around
Those are fighting words, but yes, she needs some love. I personally don’t want her as a support, I have always enjoyed playing Tyrande as a Healer. I also agree that Shadowstalk granting unrevealable would make the ult too powerful. What they might want to change for consistency sake is the fact Shadowstalk (as you know) makes your team unrevealable to monsters, mercs, such as a bosses, which can cause them to leash.
I’ve played Tyrande a lot (when I played HotS on a regular basis), to get another healer in my portfolio. But in comparison to Alexstrasza (who has her own downsides) or Rehgar (who has almost only one useful build), Tyrande made the biggest issues.
Her strength is diminish damage, before it happens, stun to prepare an attack and scouting on a macro scale.
She lacks heal output in team fights and when your team falls behind in Exp, it gets even worse.
A 0.0625s duration (a single frame) would essentialy not do anything regarding stealth, except detach the targeted abilities. It will look a bit weird when described that way though, but other than that realy wouldnt be that much of an issue.
Full global can sound OP, but in many cases it isnt too much difirent than having a regional global cast anyway. Its unlikely you are going to need people to be stealthened at all 3 lanes at the same time.
The only reason for it to be a full global is because of the healing, not because of the stealth.
Which is why Tyrande’s ult needs an unrevealable duration for at least 0,5 seconds, if not a full second (perhaps as a 20 upgrade).
Not exactly, if you look at it, all of these are considered casted stealth.
In that case it should default for Shadowstalk, which means on level 10.
Oh I remember that. Then people went on that if “all” shall burn then it should target everything on the map lol
Luckily it still works like that.
On the topic:
Comparing most Stealth to Tyrande’s Heroic is not fair imo.
Like Medivh and BW only gets it at lvl 20, but Storm talents are super op so even with that Unrevealable Dust of Disapperance is often not picked. BW’s upgrade would also be less popular if it wouldn’t be the meta Heroic’s upgrade.
Samuro and Valeera got Unrevealable because they can’t passively enter Stealth like Nova and Zera, but Nova still received Ghost Protocol to access that to compensate her being so easy of a target.
Like Tyrande would be able to just press a button to counter Butcher, Pyroblast and similar things globally without any kind of aim. This could be abused.
I think it’s better the way how Zera works and Nova outside of her Protocol. Unrevealable is the (common) exception and not the norm, that’s why it’s listed everywhere where it’s added. And since it’s not listed at Shadowstalk, it should be obvious that it lacks that extra.
So personally I hope it won’t get changed.
(Oh and btw I don’t understand why ppl think Tyrande is weak or lacking, like she’s in the top Healers yet again. Like top 3 this patch, top 4 last two patches (Diamond+).)
Countering heroic abilitys with heroic abilitys seems fair to me. Can you explain how is problematic or can be abused? I mean it’s an heroic ability not a normal ability.
This gives the impression that you actually don’t read comments before responding to them.
There is difference between coutnering Heroics with Heroics when you’re in a teamfight, and be able to do when you’re at the opposite site of the map by just clicking R.
You still need awareness to do so. And if you use your global ability with 90 seconds cooldown to save your allies, where’s the issue? What’s the problem, if abilitys can be easy and effective? Would this really break tyrande and made her S-tier?
Isn’t that one major aspect of the heroic? If this is problematic and can be abused as you say, then I would rather change this heroic than let this inconsistence with how stealth work in general.
Actually don’t. Like I know most ppl don’t take Voicechat into consideration, but that’s part of the game and used by pros. You just need to know that you can say to your ally to “Press R” and it’s done. You need zero skill, just a player who can Press R when they’re told to.
Considering that she’s already high winrate, and this would decrease her weaknesses, yes, possible. It’s a general rule of thumb to not buff a Hero who’s having high winrate.
There is no inconsistency. I talked about this in my first comment as well.
Stealth works one way all the time. Some Heroes have Unrevealable on top of their normal Stealth, but that’s like giving CC to a Dmging ability, like Slow for example. You don’t give Slow to every dmg to make things “consistent”, they’re already are, that’s just an extra effect. Stealth just makes you untargetable but don’t break targeting prior to that. Unrevealable is a possible addition that also consistent and breaks certain targeting channels.
No inconsistency, just ppl who don’t read.
from what I read out of the statistics is, she is still in a bad spot.
Very low pick rate (fourth lowest), other healers get more than four times that often played. Her influence in the game outcome is midfield.
True she has a high winrate if she gets played but that doesn’t mean she needs some boosts to make her more reliable.
Too bad you can’t see how the game result is when the team with tyrande falls behind in Exp. For what I know, it’s very hard to catch up in exp with a tyrande as only healer.