State of Whitemane

Ever since her rework has came out and everything has cooled down, I felt I should write something regarding her rework and state right now.

When the rework came out, she was extremely weak until they start buffing her more prominent healing talents and removing Saintly Greatstaff’s brain-dead gameplay and changing it into something weaker.

Blizzard’s buffs to Whitemane patch over patch resulted in her healing build being stronger since that seems to be the targeted changes.

While her builds like E build has diminished or shifted to helping her ‘auto attacks’ instead of actually empowering her E damage.

Needless to say, she’s viable by playing W build and the auto attack build is still sub-optimal, however her design-point from now is being forced to give auto attacks to shine.

I’m a wee bit sad that this is no longer the case and more like ‘just’ auto attacks, changes to E talents to actually empower auto attack more is just depressing to see.

Overall, I’m hopeful for a future where there’s an actual rework for Whitemane that shifts her role to be a Mage Healer that she used to be, but the future isn’t looking too bright.

TL:DR
Whitemane W build is viable, auto-attack healer design is being forced.

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I miss old mage Whitemane.

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I think auto attack build was their response to people complaining about Whitemane always running out of mana.

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WM didn’t run out of mana if you knew how to play her correctly.

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I liked old Q build, the synergy between all the talents made something rly cool to see and enjoyable to play. Now Anduin dominates my healer gameplay so much that there is little room for the others

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Honestly, this sort of response comes off as disconnected label association that relies on denying things for the sake of moping.

“I miss mage Whitemane”
“I want a mage healer”
“Attacks are being forced, so she can’t be a mage”
“Mage, mage, mage mage”

If she isn’t a ‘mage healer’ now, then she hasn’t ever been one.



What even is a ‘mage’? (rhetorical and non question)

WoW mages are defined by burst damage, aoe, and crowd control.
By extension, Jaina, Kael’thas, and Kel’thuzad are ‘mages’ from WoW. Do they have burst damage, aoe, and crowd control?

Yes

In HotS, “mages” tend to echo that sentiment and have similar qualities; they tend to have 3 damaging abilities, or have talents to enable all abilities to be able to deal damage (such as Li-ming with calamity). The more damaging abilities they have, the bigger the sequence of burst they can get from their aoe combo.

  • Can whitemane have all of her abilities deal damage?
    No

  • Does she deal aoe damage?
    Not really (lash might hit more than one target, but that’s not the same thing)

  • Does she have cc?
    Only at the end of the game, and if she talents for it.
    – and even then, it’s pretty much weaker than all other characters with cc already.

  • Does malf have CC, aoe, and ‘burt’ damage?
    baseline cc, talent heroic for more cc, aoe.

  • Does auriel have cc, aoe, and ‘burst’ damage?
    baseline cc, aoe damage base and talented, burst potential with a conditional wombo

  • Does stukov have cc, aoe, and ‘burst’ damage?
    baseline aoe cc, can talent for more cc, and can talent for conditional burst.

Of those, only 1 of them can build around having their entire kit be capable of dealing damage, however, damage isn’t unique to healers. (though most of them get it late in the game now) What is unique is a hero that heals from all sources of damage that they deal.

In the older topics responding to the rework, people conceded that they already attack with whitemane: her abilities have longer cooldowns, and even have delay in their effects, so she may as well attack in the gaps between to help prop up her healing.

Are mages not allowed to attack?
Name a mage that doesn’t have an attack-boosting mod for conditional damage increase.

Conditional attack boosts are a way of adding to the aoe/burst of a ‘mage’ character, so most of them can talent into that. The key exceptions being Gul’dan and Probius (for those that don’t make exceptions for Probius being a ‘mage’ since more a ‘summoner’ archtype) and they have really low cooldowns and spell range to compensate casting for attacking.

So, in the absence of other ‘mage’ qualities, is the one to then take away from this is having a cooldown low enough that it compensates for attacking opportunities by being able to cast more?

Lash has a 1 second gap, followed by a 1 second cdr, so that (conditionally) matches the cdr on gul’dan. So the question then becomes, what does whitemane do with those two seconds? Channel her other damaging spell or… use basic attacks?

Any comparison to other mages, Whitemane can either currently match, or she couldn’t match then, so she doesn’t now.

The ‘future’ doesn’t look ‘bright’ because I doubt it’d be realized for you, or anyone else, because what you call a ‘mage’ doesn’t align with how you describe whitemane.

She is going to attack; it benefits her healing, it matches her spell range, and she has time to do it between spell casts. The sort of talents that enable her attacks mirror mage talents for a similar effect.

If she isn’t going to attack, then she’ll probably build around E to compensate, at which point W is for cdr so she can cast more. If her goal is to cast more, then that’s a ‘mage’ like quality.

So all the gimmicks you use to bemoan whitemane sound like double-standard definitions that otherwise rely on veiled language that hopes the gaps convey something more specific to anyone else already ‘in on it’

The trouble with that, is that whitemane pretty does not hit the metrics for a ‘mage’ caster before, so she wouldn’t now. The mainstay difference is damage potential, at which point it’s likely less the amount of healing, and just the fantasy of picking a ‘healer’ and instead having an assassin.

While it certainly isn’t specified, the general gist of what’s otherwise being reference would be an assertion for having something that
a) completely undermines intended character weaknesses (generally a bigger deal for ‘healers’ than not)
b) demands something that is otherwise going to be OP and exploitable rather than ‘hard’ or reward ‘skill’.

Without particulars for what people actually want, people are going to fill in the unspoken gaps with similar trope comparisons and find that she already hits those marks. So if your tactic is to bemoan people for thinking that aspect is ‘fine’, you’re doing yourself a disservice with this effectual farce.

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I think by mage-healer, they just mean a healer who uses spell damage to heal with… i.e. Disc Priest from WoW.

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Hi, it’s my first post in the forums since i started playing the game back in the beta, i’m in love with this game, the characters, the mechanics, everything, and i mainly play support heroes, so when Whiteman came to the table, boy, i was surprised that her kits was super aggresive for a support thanks to her root talent and i fell in love with that, but actual Whitemane feels totally LAME, i mean, i have a lot of characters to choose for a great support and i know Whitemane will be always as a last pickup.

I hope you could “fix” her, don’t even want the old set back, just that she COULD DO something.

Keep going a good job so far! Been playing the game since beta and going!

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I miss tanky Whitemane. I always loved that she could trade damage for self defence.

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That’s a pretty strong word, just for starting up a discussion.

She was a mage healer before, just that they changed or forced her to be more in-line with auto attacking or simply just healing.

I doubt it all has to be three damaging abilities considering that Whitemane has two damage abilities which they could’ve made to increase damage or power via talents.

She doesn’t deal ‘AOE’ damage primarily, but pre-rework, made her formidable against single target burst.

Which can be supplemented by other ways than just auto attacking.

I described the ‘future’ isn’t looking too bright to what the future will remain for Whitemane’s design, whatever you assumed is your own assumptions.

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Would be nice if AA increased her spellpower instead of spells increases her AA.
Autoattacking should be optional not a must. We already have tyrande that is our AA healer

Good post btw

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these are just line-itemed responses that just reaffirm what I posted; your don’t refute the assertion of claims, you just deny they apply.

So that just continues to demonstrate the issue of the label applied; either she wasn’t a ‘mage’ before, or she is one now, and you’re denying details of mage-like qualities in favor of veiled language because what you want to convey doesn’t align with what you actually say.

It’s not a matter of assumptions; it’s literally the difference of what you describe compared to what you actually mean and people having to guess the difference. That’s not a way to facilitate the change you ‘want’ because the descriptions left void allow people to think she already hits those metrics.

I described what she was, sure I loved her previous iteration, it just seems that the new changes were more directed to change her into a physical attacking healer role.

I would hardly call W build a mage build when all it does is for sheer pressure of utility.

Nor have I denied anything regarding the current, what I simply said is that pre-rework, she was a sort of mage healer with a good single target burst spell damage build, and that her spells were more empowered than her auto attacks.

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Ana is an aa healer, (her self healing and doses boosts)
Anduin is an aa healer, (he actually heals by attacking, not just cdr)
Brightwing is an aa healer, (if tyrande counts, than bw gets healing cdr from aa)
Rehgar is an aa healer, (lifesteal from attacks)
Uther is an aa healer, (talent proc to heal each attack)
Medic can talent for aa healing (gives her energy; affects heal potential)
Alexstrasza is an aa healer (when in dragon form)
Kharazim is an aa healer. (also heals by attacking)

The “we already have” applies to half the pickable roster, and of which, only one of them heals for all damage sources dealt. We don’t ‘already’ have one of those :stuck_out_tongue:

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except you haven’t.

Anyone that doesn’t already know what you mean, or off-hand agree with it by assuming they agree, wouldn’t match your description.

What you describe for a “single target” damage build is not a mage build.

And that’s part of the problem; you say you have ‘done’ things that you really haven’t for anyone that doesn’t know (or agree) with the unspoken content, and what you describe of the old whitemane does not match with known and associated tropes to the ‘mage’ archtype.

So in both cases, you are asserted an inconsistent label. For people that read this offhand, they will ‘agree’ with parts of it and make assumptions that don’t match ‘what you mean’ because you don’t convey that.

That’s part of why you’ll cite blues as essentially call the post a ‘lie’ despite it being dead-on with the change that happened. You’re blaming external sources for a perceptive lack on your end. So to facilitate what you ‘want’, you have to actually do what you claim.

I believe the mage type that I am trying to prove is that, that single target burst damage build was actually empowering her spells, or actually building to empower spells.

More or less of the case of this ‘mage archetype’ not being realized is because of it not actually being tried more by the player-base

I might agree with that, but I can’t prove a claim when I don’t have sources that I have access to.

I would personally find this more of a subjective when there are simply ‘different’ mages.

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Kharazim has iron fist as his only choise
Reghar brightwing Uther Ana Alex and uther only when taking a niche talent

Tyrande has it in her base kit, if she doesnt autoattack her healing numbers will be lower then a average hero self he
With the new WM you are getting forced to take AA talents if you want to escape pity the frail/W buils (bg correct me if im wrong)

So WM needs a bit more flair the she currently has. And baseline 1 was not a good choise, the heal is barely noticeable

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I’m not going to say I’m right in this, but that’s mostly it, the choices are W build or AA, no other options are when you can’t build for Q that easily.

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your using double standards to assert your label.

Yes, cdr is baseline on tyrande and her healing is lower without any auto attacks; all the listed heroes have variations to their builds that directly increase their ability to contribute by attacking.

The whitemane assertion falls into a direct trap of the double standard with “you are forced” and then applies an if/then condition. If there’s an if/then, it’s not forced.

Similarly, asserted some heroes only have 1 choice is a lie and the outright demonstration of the double standard manifest.

Wanting a hero to get some changes is fine, spouting self-induced effectual lies to try to make the case seem better undermines it instead.

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If you guys want a mage healer then ask for zeal to only work on spells, it is the only way to have what you want.
As long as you get healing from AAs you will be required to heal using AAs.
If you want a mage healer there is malf and he has a root at level 0.

I’d really like her to have her old E range back and have her combo earlier than level 16, same thing with stukov’s but he at least has CC ults.

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