So genji has the worst talent tree I've ever seen

Got stuck with genji in ARAM recently & played him for the first time (not spending gold on the worst hero in heroes profile lol), and since I have been obsessed with playing him every time I have the option in ARAM because I am obsessed with how bad he is.

So to begin with, his E build is fine. I can’t share links but if you go to his heroes profile page his talent builds list, his talents in his 7 most popular builds are like 99% E talents and the only build more popular than straight E talents across the board is the same one but with the AA range upgrade. So that’s fine.
But what else does he have??? He has Q talents, but they don’t complement eachother. He has a talent that makes his D reset CD on his Q, and a talent that reduces the CD on his D so you’d think there’s a poke build you can go to emphasize your Q, buuut, you don’t get the CD reduction on his D unless you use it out of combat which means using your D redux trait wastes the talent that makes your D reset Q. He has a Q talent that increases the damage each cast does to a single target, but, it is all but unusable on any target with little enough health that it is dangerous to them and any target big enough to hit with it probably has enough health that it’s a tickle to them anyway.
Here’s the big tell on how bad his Q talents are; at level 19 if you take every single “Q build” talent, Genji’s Q’s are capable of killing… one minion. You can’t even kill two ranged minions! At level 19. Any ability that can’t kill two whole minions at level 19 when that’s the ability you took talents for at every chance, is simply not a threat to enemy heroes. Seriously, test this out, it’s heinously bad.
Of course, there’s a talent at level 20 that makes his Q pierce. “Surely that makes him a waveclear monster!” It does make it better at waveclear! Now it’s able to kill one minion, seriously injure a second or third and get most of the rest near half half. And it only took every Q talent all the way to level 20 to be halfway capable of killing a minion wave. Yes, I know the talent isn’t just meant to be used for clearing waves, but even as a tool against heroes it completely fails because it’s only useful against enemy heroes who are clumped up into a pile and on that same tier he has Living Weapon which has the exact same usecase but is much better.

TLDR; it’s real bad.

Sharpened Stars should be a pre-10 talent since it’s imminently important to his ability to do anything except finishers, Shingan should do % damage since it’s extraordinarily more useable against enemies with high health pools, and he needs a talent at 16 or 20 that just makes every Q & AA he hits a hero with reduce its cooldown by a small amount, AND, he needs Deflect to make him able to mount despite getting hit (he’s taking 0 damage), Agile Dismount to last for 0.5-1.0 seconds after getting dismounted, and for Perfect Defense to decrease mounting time while he’s deflecting so that weaving enhanced D’s into his combat can be a thing. Oh yeah and Dragon Claw now activates automatically when he lands from his D instead of being an activatable and is now a level 16 talent with upgrades as needed.

His W build is fine too but it only works against teams who don’t know what they’re doing. As such his W talents should be compressed onto one or two talent tiers with an alternative to them in case you don’t wanna take them so the build is there if you want it but even if you take it you still have to build something else too while you’re at it in case the enemy team of first-time players figures out what you’re doing mid-game, which they mostly already are. The only suggestion I have for it is that he needs a talent on his 16 that is neither W or E so that not going W build requires you to go E build, but that was already addressed in the suggestions to fix his Q build so

PS, I don’t care about ranked, how good Genji may or may not be at the smallest, most niche portion of the playerbase or how these suggestions would affect him there. Every hero should be useful & good in all game modes, if you disagree you have a brain disease and need professional help.

1 Like

Just so we are clear: you are asking devs to nerf Genju with this? Because it’s not only PvP talent and it is precisely what makes this talent so good. Even in PvP you would nerf this talent because tank is not the target you would go for normally. Actually it’s the worst target for you as Genju because CC is the very thing that will get you killed.

it cant be useful against low health targets bc theyre too small to hit with all 3 with any consistency even if ur at melee range. It either needs to be made % dmg or just made into a wholy different talent bc it is simply not useful for anything but hitting forts

The Shingan talent is really good for camp and boss taking. Shingan adds huge bonus damage to that.

Against players it’s a bit unreliable but it can be a huge amount of burst if you dash in and instantly Q them.

5 Likes

I wouldn’t say that. For me there is two variations how to play him: as initiator with X-strike with W build and aoe nuke on 4 or E-build with the other heroic. But he has some crappy talents like that on 7 against AA…

Behold and delight, lesser beings, what Gengu needs to become top-tier.

Hell naw dog, not going to necro that. Seriously though, Genji’s tree is wack. Seems to be an OW hero issue because like half of them released with major issues in their talent design which required a rework.

Of course you shouldn’t necro it. It’s hidden either way. The point was to show what Genji’s talent tree could look like. My design is more seamless and has more synergies, but of course it’s horribly balanced as you’d expect.

I think his talents will stop sucking when his core design stops sucking.

Wow, two escapes and a deflect, what fun to face. It’s like how people bag Nova for being nerfed out too, despite that “stealth sniper nukes you from beyond operative range” is a design nobody will ever like facing.

Hi guys I’m a novice and I’m here to share my first time experiencing a hero and im going to tell you all what to think about it and if you disagree in this way or that way then I shall insult you.

I’m not here to learn because I assume I’m the best and it is the world that lets me down. I have no room for improvement and I am blind to my own spoiled self righteousness and clearly do not see how impetuous I sound in my post.

Let’s chat!

ARAM is significantly different from the standard modes heroes are balanced around. A whole lot of talents that are good normally are trash in ARAM and vice versa.

Same goes for heroes. Genji tends to suck on ARAM because his strengths are not as valuable and his weaknesses are laid bare. Tracer and Samuro are kind of in the same boat.

Judging his talent tree as a whole by a mode the tree isn’t balanced around is silly.

cool! So you’re saying if I tab over to Heroes Profile he won’t be the literal worst hero in ranked mode too? Because that would be pretty embarrassing for you to have said this for the literal worst character in every mode

Oh no, he absolutely has problems and was over nerfed but I don’t think talent diversity is the cause and I don’t think ARAM is a good place to judge him.

The nature of ARAM means getting kills are less valuable and mobile assassin type heroes don’t have the same opportunities to get picks. One lane means teams tend to always be together or at least close, camps are not as isolated as they usually are, and rotations and objectives straight don’t exist. Genji from back in his meta prime would still generally suck in ARAM.