q hanzo isnt played anywhere except very low ranks, its not a viable playstyle for those who know hots
normal players also have never seen opressive hanzos… i have seen on fan stream, and they are very frustrating to face
we are lucky 99% of players cannot play him correct
Just to illustrate how bad Q hanzo is: Q nova has way more poke dps than Q hanzo (not even counting splash damage from explosions). Q nova is also a very bad way to play nova - poke doesn’t get kills and doesn’t win games.
Anyway if you do want to just spam Q’s, just pick nova - much better than hanzo at that (assuming you don’t miss).
True, but at least we can say about this that Q-build would needs buffs, if it’s really that bad. Buff Q build?
Why? Do you think Hanzo is op and needs nerfs?
It’s not that bad. It’s just the universal yet weaker choice when you can’t take the stronger options (it’s still overplayed though, there’s way more chances to play W, than ppl tend to do). You don’t pick hanzo for his Q, you pick him for his arrow ult, vision and mobility. If Q is the only thing that’s playable in a situation, well so be it. The fact is OP is not complaining about the strong parts of hanzo (R, E, W burst), he’s complaining about his actual weakest point, which is a bit weird. It’s like calling stukov op for his aa damage (sure, it’s nice’ish, but you’re not exactly going to pick stukov as your main melee assassin)…
Actually it is, if you say Q-Hanzo is basically a weaker Nova and she needs obviously buffs, I would consider this a contradiction or exaggeration to make a point.
Otherwise why there is Q-Hanzo build, if it’s not worth picking?
I said Q spam of hanzo (what OP was saying is “too high” or whatever) is much weaker than Q nova’s spam. It’s not op, it’s not strong and it’s also not what hanzo is picked for…
W spam needs walls. AA needs hanzo to get close and stay close. aa/W hybrid needs both (but also naturally offers the highest overall damage output). If you can’t get those consistently you take the weaker universal choice, which is the Q. You would not draft hanzo for his Q obviously, but if you do need a slippery mediocre long range assassin with a big *** unlimited range stun arrow, you might still pick him. Also, the lvl20 E stun, let’s not forget that one either (might actually be THE strongest part about hanzo for the lvl20 games in some cases).
If you buff Q to the level of the more situational picks, then Q would become the de facto only pick for any situation which would be very wrong. It has to be weaker because it’s more universal. And it also has to be weaker than other poke assassins, as that’s really not hanzo’s main tool (e.g., Q build nova’s Q spam would be most of what she does overall, so naturally it has to do waaay more damage than hanzo’s Q and it does). For hanzo, his Q is just a bonus to his main power-kit.
Still, I would not pick hanzo if wall hits are not a consistent option (plenty of maps where it is; also hanzo and diablo are best buddies for good reason). R is big, E stun is huge, but missing them might just lose the game, if it was all you picked him for…
At least buff it to be more appealing than “a worse Nova”.
And maybe nerf his heroic, because it sounds like this heroic is op af.
And what will nova and chromie do then? Go cry in the corner? Their much higher damage is their niche. Hanzo’s Q is most definitely not his niche. It’s weak because its supposed to be weak to balance out the stronger parts of his kit.
Nova? Considered the opinions on the forum she is ready for major buffs, even rework.
Chromie? If she would suffer from buffs to Q-Hanzo, she would obviously needs other buffs. But I don’t see how a bad build is considered good.
She’s fine, a bit too linear and predictable, but fine at what she does. The Q build is indeed trash as it takes away the only thing nova is good at (unconditional high burst at long range) for just high poke with no extras (so Q build nova is basically a chromie with less cc, less waveclear and no time trap).
no buffs no nerfs hanzo is okay as is, he is realy annoying in low ranks, if he can kill u it means ur really bad, in higher ranks against good ppl he is quite average, i mean he is playable like morales, but if far from op or useles… as a main butcher i love seeing hanzoes on the enemy team, unless they stick on a wall the entire match i just eat them in one second… so unless hanzo keep kissing walls, he is very vulnerable to divers
I would guess nobody plays hanzo in low ranks at all. It’s still one of the hardest ranged assassins, even Q build. So, I don’t see how it would be relevant at all to discuss “hanzo in low ranks”. He’s a master+ only hero (or for smurfin’).
in QM or unranked you can find some good main hanzos, which are not necessarily masters, but they can play their hero very well, with butcher I have met many good hanzos there and I can say that they are quite annoying if his team defends him well, and that’s why I said that a good hanzo is 20 minutes sticking to a wall when they see me on the opposing team, difficult to kill and with a lot of poke, lack of coordination of his enemy team may help hanzo to get out alive in bad situations
So I wanted to check if you’re onto something, and selected five of the last patches. Hanzo’s popularity was 25% in Storm League in Master, meaning he’s picked or banned every 4th game. Win rate is a comfortable 51%, higher than Abathur.
Then I removed Master and set it to Bronze and Silver. Popularity is 3%.
So it’s as you said, discussing this hero for low level play is irrelevant because almost nobody plays him there (and his winrate there is 38%, only Medivh is lower in Bronze+Silver at 35%).
He is extremely hard to play. That’s what he’s balanced around.
Definitely needs no nerfs, he is balanced.
Already among the hardest to master Heroes. Second worst winrate in QM. Second worst in Diamond+ SL.
Like seriously, on what basis do you want to make him more challenging.
Diamond+ he’s second worst.
Maybe in CCL he’s better, but that’s an environment which you don’t experience (plus I doubt he has op stats there). You play in a skillbracket where Hanzo loses more than wins, so if you lose to Hanzo more than you win, it’s maybe a you problem, and if you don’t lose more against him what we’re even talking about… Don’t expect or ask for nerfs just because you’re frustrated.
Now that you mention it, I added Diamond to the Master filter, and even during last 5 patches he is in the lowest 6 (worst heroes) by WR, a mere 47%.
It was 51% only by using Master filter (5 last minor patches), but not a lot of people play in Master.
So nerfing him doesn’t sound fair.
Except his considered crap Q build, which is the only build that lower elo players plays. Crap builds should be buffed or changed to be considered or other builds should be nerfed to make it more equal.
I love Q build hanzo and I was a master when playing it. He didnt received any patch notes
Q build has an incredible range and the explosion on 4 gives a great waveclear
No nerfs on Hanzo man. He has his own struggles, try playing him to experience those struggles.
He dies as someone sneezes towards his direction as someone already mentioned.
I just discovered him and how much I love his W build. For some reason it intuitively kicked in for me, and I can easily figure out tricky tactics using it. Probably because I’m 3D designer by trade, and… I have lots of experience with geometry 
.
This thread made me aware, that he exists for this very purpose - for players who bother to think and want to go for complex, extraordinary moves. I think his winrate is so low, because people wants to play him just as another Nova or Li-Ming, but he’s not for that. He requires braincells to work… And he rewards that.
Another reason why Ming is one of the most popular heroes. Teleport build has the highest winrate, but it’s the W build in all possible variations that’s played in thousands. And it’s completely brain-dead, just like W Valla.
So apparently people wants casual, ez “spam this skillshot” builds and heroes. So they have W Valla, Nova, Li-Ming and so on…
…meanwhile Hanzo does not require reworks, nerfs etc. He provides excellent kit for people who look for exactly this niche.