Since we are getting nerfs reverted

General Discussion
1

In the last patch several heroes had some old nerfs reverted:
Leera’s level 1 energy regen restored to 10 (from 8) as it was before.
Greymane’s Bullet is dealing 40% dmg (up from 35%) again, as it was before.
Hemmorhage used to give Leera 50% dmg, it was nerfed to 30% and now it was partly reverted to 40%.
Mephisto’s level 1 talent got nerfed form 20% spell power to 15% and now it’s back to 20%…
So since we are getting nerfs reverted, can we talk about Tychus getting his ITR and TTS synergy back. The removal of that synergy completely ruined the hero. Even if it’s a partial revert where he’s healing for 50% for the duration and gets the other 50% when it expires.

6 Likes
2

The nerfs were “reverted” because the metagame and additional heroes changed it.

It wasn’t like everything was the same and they decided to revert it back for no reason.

Tychus has been fine for a long time, as I can remember. He is not as good in as many areas as he was, but he is not super niche.

These examples are also all number changes, not ability text changes. Which is another large difference.

1 Like
3

I barely ever see him. He is way out of the meta. I see Valeera at least 10 times more often than I see Tychus.
He does deserve some love.

4

Yes, but doing something that would probably result in:

  1. the rest of tychus being underpowered due to this combo of abilities being sought after.
  2. the rest of tychus being buffed up to match what happens with these abilities, along with a nerf to these abilities.

So you either nerf Tychus’s AA/minigun to add this, or you make him even more one-dimensional, while nerfing him overall.

If you want this specific synergy to happen, you probably need to rework Tychus and balance him around it being baseline, somehow.

5

Both Valeera and GM’ had complaints. Val because she destroyed inexperienced players in QM and GM because ppl once saw a lot of him in HGC and decided it was a bad thing.

Mephisto had a lot of powerful talents on release. He’s getting the 5% sell power back, but I don,t think he’s ever getting his shield talents buffed ever again.

I also don’t think not having the talent synergy between “That’s the stuff” and “In the rhythm” ruined the hero. Having two must have talents picks is not good for any hero. Every time it was the case, they changed it,(like buffing talents so that Orphea doesn’t always pick “fright” and “Ancestral strenght”)

I think the one thing that impacted him the most was the reduction of his attack range.

I don’t know if the increased move speed affects him more than other heroes, since he needs to stand still to maximize his dps.

6

People have no clue how broken this old interaction was. This is not comparable to the small tweeks you mentionned.

5 Likes
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Yeah, a rework would also be welcome. But I don’t think he’ll be getting one any time soon. Especially when you can fix him with this small change.
Otherwise when heroes have some dominating (in pick rate) talent, it could be removed, or it could be incorporated into the hero’s baseline kit. Which would also be an option for Tychus.
The problem I’m talking about is the anti-synergy of the talents. If it’s gonna be incorporated into his baseline kit, the anti-synergy still needs to go away. As for removing the talent, that’d be stupid, as Tychus has no other means for self-sustain. Unless they replace that talent with something else that provides him with self-sustain…

As I said, they can partially revert the nerf by giving him only 50% real time healing. It’d still be weaker than before.

8

I’d say having it heal him every 2 or 4 seconds for the damage dealt would be fine. Either way, negative synergy is never something that should be encouraged.

3 Likes
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The reason they didn’t like it, is that it gave Tychus the upper hand against too many other assassins. If Say, Thrall, roots and pummels you and throws his Q, you just sit there and take it while your trait is active, and win. Against Raynor, you used to win 100% of the time by just standing there and shooting. Through his healing, even if he used inspire and had giant killer.

Since all it required you to do was just activate your trait and right click. I can see why it bothered them.

4 Likes
10

Thing is that this interaction forced synergy.
Tychus could push D and destroy the whole cast by himself and with enough bonus duration 2 or 3v1’ing people was a piece of cake.
I do agree that counter synergy should not happen so one of those two should disapear.

1 Like
11

Not really. Bigger they are was the staple pick in high level play because you couldn’t heal fast enough with the basic minigun and a lot of time spellshield was the pick. Bigger they are also ignored effects like blind and evasion making it safe pick.

Now that that he is only half range he is very easy to blow up despite minigun being more powerful because when he uses minigun everybody is within reach of him. The reason why he was nerfed was him being generalist which made him popular pick. He would go through ban phases because there were stronger picks to ban and he did have popularity in the upper 70% at pro play. On the other hand he was actually under performing having only 44% win-rate at HGC and 52% win-rate in diamond/master among level 10 tychus or higher which was in the low end(seeing as you faced many lower level heroes, this was according the old level system btw). After the nerfs Tychus almost vanished from pro play. Anti-tank hero who is vulnerable to tanks, CC and ranged heroes apparently just wasn’t the next big thing.

Sadly 95% of time other heroes just do the job better being safer, more flexible and harder to punish. Personally I don’t miss the healing one bit, I just want the range back. I could even live with the old wind up mechanic before his rework or remove the buffed minigun damage, in reality you deal crap ton less damage because of how little you can use it against players who know how to play. Just give him regular range so he isn’t super vulnerable to everything and anything. He feels clumsy AF to play with half range combined with minimal mobility. Nowadays there is no reason to pick somebody like Fenix who does everything better except target practice on stand still dummies and zoning provided with Odin. Fenix has significantly better mobility, about even damage on tanks late game(higher actually due to the mobility), much better damage on squishies, higher survivability, self sustain, solo laning, mercs, better CC(unless you need ranged interrupt) and better wave clear. Tychus is just relic of the old HoTS with the standards of current game.

12

revert greymane. Let him throw somewhat influential cocktails again :frowning: I hate his splash nerf.

13

Actually they did buff his cocktails too. I didn’t bother comparing it to the old version tho.

14

Thank you.
That talent synergy made Tychus a safe(!) monster, and “reverting” the change (from antisynergy back to synergy), his talent diversity would be gutted.

15

because blizzard just realize that nerf sucks!!

1 Like
16

What does Tychus have now tho?
Level 13:

  • Get 75 spell armor for 3 sec on 30 sec cooldown: useless against basic attack heroes. The manual activation also makes it less usefull than Lunara’s greater spell shield too.
  • 25% radius increase to overkill: doesn’t do anything for his survivability. He actually deals more dps by just basic attacking stuff, unless he’s clearing waves.
  • Minigun heals him for 100% of the bonus dmg when it expires: a good talent overall, that is the must pick on this tire.

Level 4:

  • basic attacks during minigun increase its duration: great talent, that brings lots of value to his trait, but has anti-synergy with the best level 13 talent’
  • minigun deals 4% damage instead of 2,5%, but doesn’t do anything against heroes below 35% HP. Also reduces minigun’s cooldown by 2 sec: This talent is good if the enemies you are facing have no self-sustain, and a bad healer. It makes you melt them from 100% to 35% HP in no time, and they need to retreat. However, if they have something like Cho’Gall, or Stitches, you can not take this talent, as you can no longer finish them off. You get them to 35% HP and then they start healing themselves for more than you can dish out. So it’s a situational talent, that also has situational anti-synergy with his best level 13 talent, due to the fact his minigun deals no bonus damage to heroes below 35% HP, which results in no extra healing.
  • takedowns increase your attack speed by 1%: this is the only remaining talent on level 4, that has synergy with his best level 13 talent, but in some of the games it’s hard to get value out of this one.

So now you are forced to pick a bad talent on 4, or a bad talent on 13. This is terrible, terrible design.
Even if they don’t bring the old synergy back, he still needs at least a small rework.

17

One easy change they can make is that the heal would proc every 3 seconds (his default duration) and when the ability expired. Of course, the healing amount would reset with each proc.

But of course, they are so lazy to fix it and simply opt for such lousy, uninspiring method of nerf.

1 Like
18

What? no.

The Yrel changes were not just numbers. Imperius changes were not just numbers. They wanted those heroes to be more popular and more fun. Well I know there is the Yrel skin out there so they want to sell more. And Imperius is the first hero “after the disaster” so making them look good is better for the game.

But Tychus’s talent is an anti-synergy. Something that shouldn’t happen to any hero. The time when they made that change was so long that many things have changed and tychus is no longer a 1st pick material now, so making his talents less contradictory, is not gonna break the game or even change the meta.

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19

Personally I prefer the manual trigger. As the automatic one is more likely to be wasted and useless when needed.

20

I mean… ofc they want that their skins are bought by as many as possible, but they don’t do changes to Heroes because “skin sells”. That’s just dumb to think.

They created anti-synergy in Imperius’ talent tree with his new “mini-rework”
(Impaling Light and Blaze of Glory).

They did those changes because there were problems.
Which is the reason for Tychus’ anti-synergy as well. It was pretty op and problematic.

1 Like