Riot just did a Blizzard move!

The situations are so similar, I just had to write this topic.

Riot just made some huge changes to one of their games, Legends or Runeterra. And while it is a card game, and not a MoBA, the similarities are astonishing. First I must point out that LoR is a great game. I played a lot of card games, and this is definitely one of the best as far as design and gameplay goes. So this had nothing to do with it being bad.

They just shrunk the game’s team down siginificantly, and are basically moving away from competitive support. I will put some screenshots of the FAQ from the state of the game, you’ll see it speaks for itself.

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Gotta give them credit for actually answering that obvious question.

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So long story short. A lot of their players (I believe the majority) were spending most of their time in the PvE mode they had created as an aside. You know how ARAM cannot possibly generate revenue for Blizzard because you can’t pick skins or mounts and you don’t need to own heroes? Well, Riot did the same thing, just a bit earlier in the game’s life. In both cases, I thought it was obvious that the modes would cost money without making any. But apparently they didn’t.

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Basically, like cancelling HGC and removing season rewards for ranked.

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Ok so, in LoR you can easily play the game, both competitively or casually, without ever having to buy a single card. The game had a shard system similar to HoTS, plus card tokens. Basically, a rare card token could be turned into any rare card and so on. I would sometimes stop playing for a month, then come back, and have enough shards to buy all the new cards I wanted for free. Similar to HotS 2.0., they gave way too much stuff for free. Which doesn’t just mean less money, it means players have less incentive to play.

On HotS side though, they weren’t losing money, just not making much. LoR was.

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Just like HotS, their early decisions came back to bite them in the assets. In HotS, it was focusing on vomitting new heroes constantly, and the loot system. They wanted to do the opposite of LoL, where getting skins is significantly harder. Some people at HotS probably wanted skins to be harder to get or more expensive, but the will to stick to the plan was stronger, as evidenced by how fast they backed out of gem only skins. Both games were just way too generous.

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I wish HotS had done that.

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That question hits so close to home it makes me sad :frowning:
Definitely not what happened with HotS.

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This is the saddest part. They are doing exactly what Blizzard did to HotS. I don’t think it will work any better for them. Basically,there’s recruitement, and there’s retention. Anyone who has any marketing knowledge knows that retention is always easier. And that’s why it’s cheaper. They’re putting their effort more in attempting to keep current players than getting new ones. The game will still lose players, but slower, but you’re not making up for it because you need more people joining than people leaving. Which they are hoping will happen through word of mouth.

In essence it’s like new stuff added to HotS, only people who already play will be aware of it. It’s like when they said they were hoping that the release of DeathWing would bring in new players. If I don’t know HotS exists, I’ll never even know it’s happening. It may bring back former players who stopped playing, but new players generally won’t care. (Especially if you nerf the character so much that he rarely shows up in games, and someone who sees the game for the first time is unlikely to see him)

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That was asked of HotS as well. Though I don’t believe Blizzard ever answered it.

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Yeah, they did the same with other projects. Makes sense though, since LoL is what makes the most money for them, plus there’s 100M+ players. The other games have much much less.

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I don’t think the number of players was an issue here, as much as the number of players buying something. And they don’t mind making other projects, like the spinoff games starring LoL charcters like Hextech Mayem and Ruined King, and the upcoming Project L. (Which will also be free to play)

I did read it but just encase (for the others that didn’t) have you got an overall TL;DR?

tl;dr HotS, esp Kaéo Milker posts.

One could change a few words and it’d be answers to stuff for HotS

eg. why not Ragnaros skins or why not advertising.

They just did a major cut for other games as well though. Riot Forge will be discontinued after their next release (Bundle Tale) this month. Riot Forge created the spinoff games.

They will mostly keep the games done by Riot itself (which includes Project L).

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The same way that LoL took over the market of MOBAs and swallowed a lot of the players interested in the genre due to being the early bird, Hearthstone took over online card games and holds players because it came first.

These type of games create an investment portfolio for the players that is hard to walk away from.

LoR had as much chance to “succeed” (make it big) as HotS; they both came too late.

I don’t think Hots failed because it was too late though, just really bad decisions made by the devs/blizzard (mostly blizzard).

LoR actually has a huge playerbase (over 14M on launch and the numbers only went up). Main problem is that that’s nothing compared to what League has. Riot shared they almost peaked 200M players. And League just has a much better monetization system, while in LoR you could get basically everything for free, like in Hots.

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I don’t do TLDRs.

If people don’t read, they don’t read.

The game actually succeeded. It just wasn’t making money with the model the built it on.

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In my eyes, it did, but in terms of comparing the popularity to LoL, it didn’t. By the time HotS got to the market, MOBA players were already invested in something else.

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Eh… Hots had a really big playerbase and was getting more and more attention back in the good days.

Main problem was Blizzard’s decisions on the game, which made a lot of people leave + not generate the money they wanted. Then in 2018 cancelling everything was the last nail in the coffin.

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I was talking about LoR when I said it succeeded.

I heard somewhere that all RIOT does is copy other games, poorly.

Blizz prefers to ruin their existing IPs to make players leave, so Blizz can say, “We kept the servers going. It was you who left the game.”. Taking any sort of responsibility for anything is against Blizz policy.

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Personally I feel it was a case of the head honchos wanting more than what HotS can do while also asking the wrong questions concerning HotS with the aim being income rather than making a fun game to draw people in.

There is also the lack of advertising which really hurt HotS. I’ve often received confusion whenever I had brought the game up to people who actively played Blizzard products during HotS golden age. I cannot even recall how I stumbled upon HotS. I think I quite literally was browsing the Blizzard webpage where I found it.

They also fell into the same pit as what many developers do with WoW, but with LoL instead. It felt as if they were trying to directly compete with LoL instead of finding their own niche and when it didn’t work they moved on. Which the game is vastly different than DotA and LoL in that it has more than a single mape and games do not last as long as a Lord of the Rings film.

Perhaps if Activision wasn’t pulling the strings as much (who aim towards yearly released slot machines and cash shops like CoD) HotS could have faired better.

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If I remember correctly from what one of the devs had said. Activision were not involved at all in anything they did for HotS.

I wouldn’t say that. I mean, they pretty much put the F2P model on the map. THey do a lot of different things with their games (Well Ruined King looks like a repainted version of Battle Chasers, but that’s because they hired the company who made the game to create another one for them ,so they re-used their engine.)

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Well they had some shame. Selling an inferior version of the same game would be bad for business.

I don’t believe that for a second, even if it is true within all the double-speak Blizz does. This is the part where I talk out my pattooty: For one thing, Blizz had to recoup a lot of time fighting over Dota characters and being late to the Moba party. Forcing the MLG pro-leetxorz scene was just “advertising” so people can take the game seriously. Tangent: The HOTS League was so hollow to me. This wasn’t a show for gamers, but for investors…
Making a game without a model to sell virtual stuff is not an option. Activision I’m sure stood by whispering sweet nothings into Blizz’s ear on how to make that dirty dirty money.

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At least they were extremely open about the situation of the game financially and business wise.

That makes it easier to accept the game winding down.

We got zero communication concerning any of the internal workings of the game team except from Adam Jackson on maybe a couple occassions.

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This was also a major failure. And they had really nice things going like Heroes of the Dorm, HGC, streamers partners etc…

The advertising was so bad for Hots, I remember some HGC players saying when they went to Blizzcon to play the big tournament, people from other tournaments (like HS, OW etc) asked which game they played and when they said Heroes of the Storm, they asked “what is that?”. It was even bad advertised on their own platform that even long time consumers of their products didn’t even know about the game. It’s so bad.

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HotS never operated at a loss, so there wouldn’t be anything to recoup.

I’m sure I didn’t hear anything about Blizz using slaves to make the game.

Being behind the pack to try and compete is working at a loss when they could’ve made much more if they made games for gamers. If they actually paid attention, they would’ve made the game in time to actually compete with the likes of other mobas they obviously were trying to compete with.