Like, with this nerf to armor, just revert the whole thing and give us the slow. I’m all for tower diving but I think it’s annoying if you or my team can just throw a party in an enemy’s tower without any recourse. Like, what’s the point of defending such a tower if you lose a person or 2?
“Well, just let them take it for free while I go do something else because there’s no way we’ll be able to fight a couple people down in our OWN base”. Like cool, just take it for free. Awesome.
At least with the slow, you could kite people and get them killed but the dmg from the towers now is insignificant and has no slow. No one competent is going to let armor debuffs stack so they’ll just dance in and out and now without a slow, you basically just have to leave like before.
However, I still prefer the slow if we’re going to have this iteration of towers. They’re not really threatening and not threatening to the enemy team unless they don’t know how to drop aggro.
2 Likes
I don’t understand how it’s harder to defend when the structures now attack your enemies instead of ignoring them. Games time has increased by an average of a minute or two, precisely because pushing is harder.
They used to be slowed, but only if they didn’t have minions / summons or if they were the first hero to walk in range. And doing that kind of dive was stupid, so only bad players would get caught like that.
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They could bring the slow back but maybe not the same value since it does also reduce armor.
Also normal towers should not slow.
5 Likes
Yeah I think bringing back the slow while keeping some armor reduction would be good. I still feel like forts and keeps are relatively easy to take. I also think keeps should deal splash damage, slowing and reducing armor (tweaked and balanced of course). That will make things interesting. As Sylvanas, I don’t worry about it. I just use my trait when I want to push and problem solved.
Yes I think the slow (both movement and attack) should come back. If they want to keep armour debuff make it come back after that but really they could have just change the prioritisation without reducing the armour from the original towers.
Yeah, but you could just simply clear the minions rather than dancing around in a leash range within the tower. The forts have a short range on whether they’ll target switch or not.
Either way, it was easier to defend when enemies were slowed rather than taking more dmg because the higher dmg never happens with people dancing around the range so the debuff simply gets shifted and they are never slowed. If they aren’t slowed, you can’t really approach with men down to defend it because the enemy team will just walk at you at full speed. You may as well just leave and do something else once you lose a person or two.
Honestly, they should just do away with the debuff and bring back the slow. That’s all I’m saying. With the dmg it does and how players play, it doesn’t really have as much value as the slow did.
Here’s what I think needs to be done:
- Remove the new Tower aggro behavior completely.
- Give Forts and Keeps back their 40% attack and movement speed slows.
- Remove Forts and Keeps’ armor shred effect.
- Buff Tower’s armor shred effect up to what Forts/Keeps were (-10, up to 40).
- Reintroduce the third Tower next to the Fort/Keep.
The armor shred effect I think can have a place in this game. My only real complaint with new Towers is the aggro behavior, as that rewards low-skill and passive play and punishes pushing too harshly.
I’ve always said the third Tower that was removed back in the 2017-2018 laning changes should be brought back. It played a major role in helping Forts clear minion waves, and with how powerful the minion waves that build up passively can get, I think that would be good to have back.
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Towers should not have the new aggro mechanics, it tightens the map way too much. Forts/Keeps should be buffed significantly and keep the aggro mechanics, give them their release damage and armor shred back (+20% damage and up to -40 armor shred,)
Bull rushing under the old tower system is not very high skill either
Actually, it usually was unless your opponent was a complete potato. Even heroes like Illidan and Genji, who are practically designed to Tower-dive, had to be wary of Forts and Keeps’ slow. They’ve actually benefited from the removal of that slow, and the new aggro mechanic doesn’t really affect them since they can ignore Towers anyway.
Otherwise, if a hero could fight you and win under your own Towers, it’s because you either got outplayed or your hero wasn’t designed to fight your opponent’s (like trying to defend against Alarak as Malfurion).
I’m not sure what you’re trying to say.
You start off with, “Actually, it usually…” like you’re about to disagree with me and then go on to say what I’ve already said lol. I want the slow to come back and for them to get rid of the anomaly.
When the anomaly first landed, the dmg they put out was a good deterrent but now there’s no slow and the dmg is insignificant so teams can just party under towers without much recourse.
It also aids in making great, strategic plays.
As Kerrigan I love baiting people towards the towers, pull them in with grasp, and secure a kill (especially someone like winblades, who can walk in an out without care). Before the tower might attack them, situationally, but usually they’d just walk. Heroes who can stun have actual options when playing defensively near their own structures too. Now if you lock someone down with Kel’Thuzad, the tower actually matters.
I love the armour debuff and it just makes logical sense that a defensive structure would attack the actual threat rather than focus on minions. Pushing, in my gameplay, has hardly changed. And the additional threat is a lot more fun when you play well and succeed.
1 Like
A thought: what if the pre- and post-tower mods were blended?
Towers might only be able to bring armour down to -10, but also have a mild slow. Maybe 10%. Forts might be more like -20 armour and a 20% slow. Keeps, maybe more like 30% and -30 armour. This way the defensive structures continue to be a threat as the game advances, but well-managed play still creates the most influential effect?
I was responding to Tooton’s post above mine. If you reply to the post directly above your own, it doesn’t cite it in the top right of your own post (like how this one is citing your post).
It’s kind of annoying.
Yeah, it also notified me that you responded to me so I was confused. My mistake.
You’re usually notified of any comments in your thread as if they were replies to your OP, though it often groups them up and will sometimes exclude some of the responses from your notifications.
People asked for years to have a clan system, to fix MMR, to fix matchmaking in QM, to fix premades vs solo players… Blizzard ignores them all and instead changes towers and add extra gimmicks to cores no one ever asked for.
Welcome to Blizzard’s games that are disconnected from the player base. You want a new Diablo game? Sure here i is… on mobile! Rofl… This company. Has completely forgotten who their core playerbase is.
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I really hope if they are going to nerf this anomaly into the ground they at least bring this back.