Release Talent Data for Everyone Blizz

General Discussion
1

Blizzard, it’s time.

I just got out of a game where I was criticized for not taking ROF over Water Ele in QuickMatch.

Now admittedly I had not played in some time with Jaina, so there was the possibility Jaina got some nerfs or buffs that I wasn’t aware of, so I double checked on HeroesProfile after the game in case my instinct was wrong and found that yes, Water Ele is actually better not just at Master and DIamond skill tier but across all skill tiers for QuickMatch, and every single popular build that has a positive winrate for QM uses Water Ele.

Our team lost and initially I blamed it on a teammate who got so caught up on countering a specialist that he ignored almost all teamfights and objectives, but when I checked back I realized that, actually, the same Deckard that was so confident in criticizing me for taking the “wrong” water elemental ult choice didn’t know that he was supposed to take Super Healing Potion at 13 as Deckard.

Instead he took Ancient Blessings, a 60s CD ability that I had never before heard of in my entire life, that upon further investigation turned out to be an aura that lasts for 8 seconds and heals nearby teammates who are autoattacking…on our team with 4 spellcasters and only one AA-based hero. By the end of the game Deckard was outhealed by 55k healing by his counterpart healer… and this is before even factoring in the additional enemy shielding and self-healing from the other enemy team members.

Now QM is, admittedly, a crapshoot compared to storm league. Sometimes you don’t get a team with waveclear and just get outlaned all game. Sometimes the enemy team gets an actual healer and their Auriel resurrection wins every teamfight while you get a Tyrande who has been frantically trying to micro her heals all game yet still has 2-3x less healing because Blizz still classifies her as a full-on healer instead of the very conditional support that she actually is.

Hiding the statistical data on talent and build performance across all skill levels is actually making the game much more unfriendly than it should be for a more casual MOBA. Not only are bad talent choices very commonplace, there remains a very visible degree of confusion over what to actually take, and even people who are sure that they know what to take like the Deckard I mentioned actually have no idea.

Even earlier today I had a game in QM with someone ranked Plat 5 in SL who was playing Li Ming to lvl 20. Her winrate was 41% and she had a k/d of around 2. 2. Let that sink in for a second. This is Li Ming, a hero who not only steamrolls off resets but has a consistent low-CD displacement with wave of force and escape with teleport, and usually has Dominance as well for a health reset. Even with a low winrate due to learning the hero, there is no reason for her to die so often; it’s like if someone playing Abathur in QM had constant 6+ death games; at that point you would question if they were deliberately trolling.

Well it turns out that she was building sub-optimally and going orb build. Except it wasn’t even a proper orb build because she failed to take power hungry at lvl 1 and failed to take glass canon at 13. This is someone who is at least somewhat skilled mechanically, but she has no idea how to build in quickmatch and she’s losing much more than she actually should be for her skill level. The talent system is so stupid that it is actually possible in Ming’s case for unaware players to build the non-meta orb build in the wrong way, and then lose out on both the benefits of the teleport meta build as well as the benefits of the non-meta orb build.

At this point it’s not a problem of “learn2play” it’s a problem of “well you know how to play but unfortunately there are no in-game build statistics since Blizz prefers to lie about every talent being viable, so good luck trying to avoid trap talents!”

No wonder this game is struggling to survive. Without naming names, another MOBA competitor actually provides guides written and voted on by community members that you can reference in-game and in-match, so that even when you start a new hero you will have some basic idea of how to build/buy items/etc and what NOT to buy/build in a general situation.

Nothing like that exists in HOTS so everyone is left floundering in the dark and even those who are somewhat mechanically skilled and have been playing for years have no clue.

Just release the data already Blizz.

1 Like
2

Blaming the loss on someone who doesnt agree with your talents choice is like blaming one person in soccer just because he is wearing different shoe brand.

You lost because your opponent has better coordination, teamwork and skills. One person talent choice is very minor. I usually try to take different talents and winning. Sure following HeroesProfile is good start but you can always pick different talent and still winning.

For example: Based on HeroesProfile, everybody pick Big Shot. But I got most win by picking Bunny Hop in QMs. Picking different talent doesnt necessary mean instant loss for the team. How you play, coordination and heroes comp IMO are the factor for winning.

Even if your team has LiMing but opponent has two bruisers and Butcher and you dont have any melee at all(no tanks, no bruisers), your chance of winning is very thin.

2 Likes
3

Ring of Frost can end games and turn games around if it hits 2+ players. What a weird thing to flame about, unless you really missed every ult.

Water Elemental is not bad (it is picked even in highest mmr games) but it’s not a game changer like a perfect RoF.

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4

RoF, Elemental, Ancient Blessing and Super Healing Potion are all totally viable talents.

Sheep.

2 Likes
5

no, what it is doing is allowing the ability to properly balance talents.

I think they should be more clear on priorities, like “problem talents” that are drastically worse and that they’re working on buffing or changing? Absolutely, those should be on a list.

It also could be useful as sometimes a player will think of a way to “fix” said talent that passed the developers minds.

But showing how every talent fares overall? Nope. Nada.

That is one of the few areas of the game where I won’t push for more transparency. Or at least, not as much as you want.

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6

So much text for just one guy who prefer ring of frost

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7

Taking stats for talents out of context is incredibly risky. Water Elemental is a good talent, don’t get me wrong, but a well-placed and timed RoF is a game changer. If your team has solid follow up damage, RoF will turn a team fight around arguably more easily than any other heroic. If your team does not have that sort of burst damage, then yes, take Water Elemental by all means.

Rather than looking solely at win rate and pick rate data for a talent, you need to take into account the team comps, maps, and counters. For example, while Wave of Force is the “better” talent for Li Ming, there are times you will want Disintegrate, such as against an Anub’arak.

While some heroes do fall into a one-build trap, most don’t, so blindly following guides on talent builds in HotS is more likely to cause trouble than be helpful at higher ranks.

2 Likes
8

Both of you contributed to the loss by using individual talents as scapegoats instead of focusing on team coordination and communication.