Currently the timers get longer as the match progresses or based on the team level. Had a game on Dragon Shire where we had 2 of the enemy keeps down and we sill had all three. After we took the second keep 2 of us died leaving only a tank, healer, and bruiser to defend. Enemy team proceeds to kill a keep and the Core while we were still waiting to spawn because it was over a minute. This ruined the whole experience of the match just for a fat L and all progress during early to mid game was nullified by late game re-spawn timers only.
Why is it that someone with 2 deaths will have about the same time to re-spawn as someone with 10 deaths? It is putting too much emphasis on late game and making the early to mid game irrelevant in some cases.
Instead timers need to be individually adjusted based on each players performance, such as healers having time removed for each set amount of healing or tanks taking so much damage. Kill/assist for anyone should also remove time.
Time should be added for dying and maybe other things like afk.
Well timers should absolutely not be adjusted individually. That would be absolutely horrible to keep track of and it would result in very safe heroes becoming even stronger than they are now. It would also heavily encourage players to not fight in fear of dying for increased respawn later.
Altho I do believe the respawn timer should be reduced in the lategame. There’s a spike in respawn around levels 16-20, not sure exactly when it occurs but it quickly goes from like 30 seconds to a minute.
I would also like to say that this is a primary form of “comeback” as players in higher MMR tends to not really care if you’re behind in the earlygame or not. Countless times there will be an overconfident mistake or just one bad fight that equalizes the entire earlygame lead, if not ending the game. So as long as you manage to defend at least 2/3 or 1/2 keeps you can still win when the level 16 talent is equalized despite playing terribly in the early-midgame.
Just earlier today I had an absolutely awful Sky Temple game. Legit the entire team (including myself) was basically feeding the whole game. Enemy forced boss level 20vs19, we hit 20 as boss reached about 10% HP and proceeded to wipe them because Rehgar was alone vs me as Rewind Zeratul and their frontline dove too deep and I think they even got hit by the boss’s stun when our Arthas rooted some but I might be mistaken. We proceeded to take the boss and end.
I view this game as a loss because we only won because of 1 poor teamfight by them and 60 seconds respawn. It should be lowered at least a bit because currently it’s far too punishing to die in the lategame, not just the respawn itself but most objectives becomes indefensible at that point.
Because it allows comebacks. Your team lost due to a late game mistake. Being top early game and middle game is meaningless as ultimately late game will decide who wins. Early and mid game advantages can give you an advantage late game, but even still all it takes is a team wipe and you can lose.
It also is designed such to keep match lengths down. If there is a team wipe late game, the match will likely end. If revive times were kept short it could result in a stale mate where both teams repeatedly trade kills, running into 45-60 minutes.
This will just make the game more and more snowbally. A good team that is doing well can cheat revive times away compared with the underdog team which is doing badly. Comebacks would basically be impossible. If a team dies early game they might as well leave as there is no chance of winning.
It is so that late game deaths matter more than early game deaths. The topic creators example is exactly why the feature exists.
His team made a mistake and lost 2 people. Revive time was so long that the 5 enemy players had enough time to rush down a keep and then the core. From losing early and middle game they ended up winning late game because the other team had deaths then when it mattered the most.
It was clearly a win by out playing them. The enemy team made a very stupid mistake to engage boss while you were in position to contest at an equal level and lost as a result.
This is a fundamental problem in my view. Making the early-midgame not really matter means that you don’t have to learn important camp clears, rotations, how to translate a solo lane advantage and so on. It makes a majority of the game ultimately pointless for the overall outcome of the game.
We have very different views on this one. They started boss while having a talent lead but they didn’t have the damage to finish it before we hit 20. This is a desperation last attempt to push a lead they had worked for the entire game up until that point. We just got lucky really which isn’t really an outplay in my mind.
Except the early and middle game does matter. You see if you have an advantage then you will be 2-4 odd levels above the enemy team. It is unlikely the enemy team will ever kill you. Even when the enemy team reaches level 20, they will still likely team wipe against you if you are level 24. Early game advantages lead to middle game advantages which lead to late game advantages which lead to a late game enemy team wipe which leads to a win.
The example you posted showed the enemy team did not have a late game advantage. You were 20 around the same time they were. As such you were both evenly matched and ultimately you won by out playing them.
Except they had as good as no advantage as you hit 20 soon after they did. Grabbing the boss was a desperate attempt to gain an advantage when they had none. Instead it left them vulnerable so you exploited and won. Even if you were level 19 you probably could have won the boss by exploiting their bad positioning to kill 1. Taking bosses when the enemy team is alive is extremely risky without a significant level lead.
If they had an advantage they would have hit 20 ages before your team and by the time you hit 20 (if the game was not already over) you would have been trying to fight a level 23-24 team and they would have won both boss and team wiped you.
Understand that I’m doing a smaller quote to try and make the post a bit shorter.
If a single mistake lategame reverses everything you’ve done in the early-midgame it actually nullifies the importance of the earlygame to a certain extent. It’s not so pointless as to afk behind your gates all game, but it’s quite clear that it’s not nearly as important as the lategame.
Between levels 10-15 is typically when the game is the most snowbally. This is often when the tanks are at their prime and the damagedealers are a bit weaker. This is partly because the level 13 talent tier is often a defense/utility and in rare instances weak/stackable damage talents but also because % scaling hasn’t kicked in fully. This means that survivability normally is peaking while damage is a bit lower.
On the one hand you could say that this should be the time where you would be in full control. That is technically true but this is also the time where objectives tends to spawn cross-map (like Sky Temple top+bot altar) or Tributes happening on the other side forcing rotations as well as multiple forts are often down resulting in less safe areas which often results in players getting caught out. This is why these levels tends to very often go back and fourth if the teams are fairly evenly matched.
I’ve given a rough idea of what the lategame looked like. For the most part of that game the enemy team held a 2-4 level lead on us, but they weren’t able to secure enough keeps which was why we didn’t lose. They had a terrible comp to siege. Catch-up experience is a big deal from 16 and onwards.
They dominated until the pressure kicked in.
You have a point that it was a desperate attempt and it left them vulnerable which resulted in us exploiting that weakness. This is still not the point I’m trying to make.
My point is that we were being thrown around like trash for basically the entire game and yet we could win because they crumbled to the level pressure. When Zeratul hits level 20 with MotN and Sentenced to Death he can basically oneshot anyone who isn’t a tank, which is exactly what I did to Rehgar.
As I’m writing this I also went to check the replay to be sure I’m not talking out of my ***. Throughout the game they held an almost 4 level lead. When we had 13 they had 16. They hit 20 just as we hit 17 but what happened was minions picked up 2 very damaged forts in mid/bot as we were fighting the topside altar bringing us to level 18.
From this point on once they had captured the altar they played very scared. I’m not sure why actually. We managed to stall to about 75% into level 19 through some merc camps and weird rotations. At this point they forced the boss very aggressively where Rehgar actually took significant damage from the boss, he didn’t even have time to use Storm Shield when I appeared as he was looking at Diablo and Dehaka, diving way too deep into our Arthas Frozen Tempest.
It is very obvious that they missplayed their lategame very hard yet you cannot deny how hard they crushed us in the early and midgame. One bad fight most likely a result from stress and poor communication lost them a game they had dominated for 18 minutes.