Rant: Playing Butcher is frustrating in QM

General Discussion
1

His “trait” is nothing more than a crutch, forcing him and his team to play babysitter until he’s at full stacks. Otherwise, he’s gonna stay dead weight. Not to mention he has a to jump through a lot of hoops to get what he needs. Either he grinds minions for 7-8 meat per wave, or risk dying for more by fighting other heroes. What’s worse is that he needs to walk to the meat to get it, he doesn’t get stacks right after the kill. So I have moments where the meat is in a place where I can’t reach or its too dangerous to get too. And if I die in the process, I lose 15 meat, so 20 -15 = 5. Less than what I get from grinding minions. Not even Kael struggles that hard for his Convection talent.

Oh, and there’s also a small delay when collecting the meat, if he dies while in that process, he doesn’t collect.

People also assume he’s frontline cause he’s melee and has a lot of health, but he’s not. People also complain whenever I don’t play right with him. I dive too much, they say I’m feeding. I don’t dive too much, they complain I have low damage. Can’t win either way.

And even if I do get full stacks, its not a guaranteed win. His E is easily negated by a lot of characters. Either a Shield is used to absorb the burst dmg, A cleanse is used to negate the stun, or an Iceblock-like ability is used to halt his momentum entirely. I simply can’t charge into heroes with an Iceblock until after they use it.

Butcher’s infamous weakness in Diablo 1 still works here in Hots. Trap him in a wall and he’s screwed. In addition, blinds shut him down hard, especially Artanis’ Suppression Pulse or Valeera’s Cheap Shot.

And yet there’s people who still think he’s OP. He’s the complete opposite. And its mostly because his kit is outdated and hilariously countered. Why they never bothered to rework him I’ll never know.

2

Overpowered againts teams with no frontline and healer and zero brain
Vegan againts teams with a proper comp and working brain.

Yea that is how he works.

6 Likes
3

If you are playing QM solo then you are really rolling the dice with butcher in hopes that you land on a decent team comp that will help facilitate butch getting fed. It is less to do with enemy team and more to do with your team.

Decent team comp for a butcher = tank heavy team with lockdowns / cc.

A bad comp to land on would be a no tank game with all back liners / healers / support. Butch is easily picked off in these comps.

2 Likes
4

Whenever my character gets countered by the enemy team comp I sometimes shift gears to taking as many camps as possible so I can win the macro game. I don’t play Butcher, but isn’t he able to solo a boss?

1 Like
5

@Revvick He definitely can solo boss, but IIRC, it takes full meat stacks first or he wont get enough self healing.

I also agree that if the enemy team counters you hard in QM, it’s a great idea to focus on camps and macro game. Charging into 3 blinds as Butcher just isn’t going to work, so the next best thing is flooding the enemy with Bosses, Siege Giants and Bruisers :smiley:

2 Likes
6

play butcher in ranked, butcher is a character that generates negative feelings in your allies and u’ll be blamed for ur loss, and yes he can be usless if u die a lot… better is farm minions like 100 and get at least 5 kills and not die… here is a guide i liked to read:
https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/a8s98h/im_a_level_100_butcher_player_ama/
i played him in ranked because is way easier to get good comps and teammater than in QM, and i was like gold 1… but a good butcher can reach higher rank
here is one of my games i playes while ago (last season)
https://youtu.be/l3r1y9dIJLc
Nobody in my team picked healer vs a good enemy comp rank was around gold1/2 & plat 5. so no heals make a way harder game but with optimism u can win… dont get tilted and stay relaxing trying to farm meat… in ranked he can be good, in qm is way worst, i dont like played him in qm because is a stomp from one side, but in ranked the games are far more interesting

2 Likes
7

Butcher is largely fine in my view: neither over- nor under-powered. He is feast-or-famine, but how you play him can go a long way to overcoming the challenges and providing value to your team even when un-stacked. Two examples:

  • He has a large hit-box, so really good at body-blocking
  • His Ruthless Onslaught can be canceled prematurely, and sometimes this draws out enemy cooldowns (they just hear that terrifying sound and see a Butcher coming)

Like all melee assassins, he requires patience. You say this…

“I simply can’t charge into heroes with an Iceblock until after they use it.”

…like it’s a bad thing. It’s not. You should be tracking cooldowns, especially as a melee assassin. Moreover, the threat of your charge forces the opponent to play more conservatively than they otherwise might, which your team may be able to take advantage of.

It’s the YOLO face-checking Butchers that people can yawn away. The patient, cunning Butchers? Not so much.

3 Likes
8

Once stacked and probably around level 13+

2 Likes
9

In ranks lower than Plat (even higher) I don’t think The Butcher is a bad pick at all. If a player is skilled with a melee hero that can destroy the backline, they will often have more success in lower ranks as many players just don’t know how to deal with melee heroes.

I’m not saying that as a blanket statement, results will vary. When I was climbing out of Silver and Gold I would often ban heroes like The Butcher as players in those ranks not only didn’t know how to deal with a hero like The Butcher, but they would tend to simply die more often and so a Butcher would get his quest fed far more quickly than against more competent players.

I think people should target bans in ranked not to what is necessarily meta, but also take into account what rank you’re in and ban accordingly. Another example of a hero I would routinely ban in Silver/Gold was Azmodan, as it seemed many players were either slow on rotations or didn’t do them at all so the Azmodan player would get high value simply split pushing.

3 Likes
10

That would mean you have to ban heroes like Murky, KT, Butcher, Nova, Azmo or just any hero low league players stuggle againts yes. Then you can when you get higher start useing your bans on proper heroes and not meme heroes that low league players refuse to get better againts.

1 Like
11

I tend to ban Azmo, Zag if I know a player on their team is half descent with them cause I know my team won’t rotate in time :stuck_out_tongue:

1 Like
12

Playing Butcher is frustrating in QM

Fixed a little mistake there

1 Like
13

Thats the life of a win more hero .

14

Butcher is one of the most OP heroes in QM. If you struggle with him in QM, it is purely down to your playstyle deficiencies.

I am saying that as a Master in ranked, I know how to counter butcher but the QM madness and MM rules make him silly OP as there is too little CC and peel on average.

15

raises 1 eyebrow yes OP if the enemy team has no CC, no tank, and full of squishy heroes. I’m no where near masters, and even if there 1 CC, a knockback, a dispel, blind, stun, Taunt, the butcher literally can’t stack meat.

I’d assume at master level, he’s basically crippled unless the enemy team has no cc no front line.

16

Butcher is op in QM, of course he isn’t OP in Masters ranked games because there is a draft phase to form a meaningful comp with enough CC.

Tbh one of the biggest problems with butcher is that he is considered melee assassin for QM MM, and therefore gets matched against much squishier assassins like maiev, kerrigan and murky (which cannot be considered a front line). If butcher was considered a bruiser for MM at least there would be some front line on both teams.

17

There are alot of OP heroes in QM not just Butcher. With no tank/healer to protect you it just comes down to who can burst down the other team the fastest.

A team of mages are not going to win anything if they play againts divers that got Valeera hiding in the bushes.

Also a reason why ranked is the most balanced game mode you can play.

1 Like
18

Butcher was my main, I still have a 58% WR with him. Am I the best? No but I do know enough to give advice.

If you want to have a bad time, yes play butch in solo QM, I am a solo player and you’ll end up getting more angry, irate, frustrated and sad because while hots is a team game, solo QM or solo queue, everyone is selfish. There will be those people who do follow up on your charge, or you end up getting a great team that can follow-up, or carry you until 200.

Yup, I get this pretty much every 2nd game playing butch. Trust me, you’ll get alot of backseat drivers telling you how to play butch. Just ignore them.

While this is correct, you’re not really meant to be full on tank and dps mode at 200 stacks, at 200, you can just fend for yourself instead of with someone. You still need someone to finish someone off faster.

Butcher needs the enemy to be stationed to get full damage which is one of his downfalls.

He’s only OP when your team backs u up and the reason why people think he’s OP cause usually teams are grouped up towards mid to end game where he’s at 200 stacks already, appearing he’s OP.

But tip for you, if you can find another person that can compliment butcher, such as taunt varian or even garrosh that knows how to throw, then you’ll have fun.

I versed a team where is was taunt varian, tyrande and butcher. They were so damn co-ordinated, our team gave up around the 8 minute mark cause we’re a team of solos.

Varian would taunt, tyrande would stun then butcher would charge… worst CC combo…

1 Like
19

This is an average QM with butcher. He’s not hard to play, and it’s not hard to get 200 blood.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1636395425

20

He’s a pubstomper… nuff said

1 Like