Plz explain the 50% win rate to me

So you climbed, your average became higher and you face a set of enemies who are also in similar average that knows how to draft, that or being smurfs, that or just being generally better that they are also hard climbing, is from what I am getting here.

This theory does not apply nor make absolute sense in this discussion at all.

And if it was not the case then when it comes to long queue times and still see the game as normal as possible in the process? What times were you even playing during this? You are aware that population bounces up and down on daily basis? Are you aware groups tend to Queue higher and tend to be more difficult to set up a similar avg MMR? You are very much missing so many variables and things considered into this that makes your argument have so many loopholes.

I’ve played all my way from Silver to Master where I was past my 50 game in like Gold 1, over the course of 6 months ending on a 75% win rate overall matches, from over the course of all these months, I’ve faced both challenging and unforgiving matches in each ranks and still squeezed in the win, if you certainly and assurly belong higher then you would climb in facing players that actually into your skill set, otherwise it sounds like its a case of getting better from how most of these forced 50% win rate seems to sound, and even so isn’t the whole point of the system is to find balance games of avg MMR while at the same time the performance of such game comes from you?

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You might want to take this into account.

It rather makes no sense that it took for you over 12mins to make such posting, to be frank with you.

It’s all in the topic. Several times.

“unforgiving”, how cute this sounds. Sock puppets these days really should charge something for white knighting, especially during COVID-19. I would, at least.

On a more serious note: The issues with the matchmaker, the presentation and how people can improve have been posted for years now. So, where are the changes? Why do we see fake positivity reports at the end of the match and not the actual problems a player has? Where is the MMR display? You guys really don’t bring anything new in but try to keep the faulty system in check. You’re the perfect puppets for the developers to keep in the maze.

If you guys are happy with the current system, then good for you. However, the majority of former players has moved on and the reasons why are clear.*

  • I should mention that these are several factors but the mm is one of the most discussed one, as I have mentioned it in this topic several times. Khaldor is one of the more prominent people who is vocal about it, god bless his honest soul in this pit full of disingenuous players.
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Oh I’m so sorry that I take my time to write this stuff instead of you starting writing down the moment I post my comment looking like you haven’t read half of it, very close minded of you especially in such hot topic.

To be clear, I’m open for changes especially more visible data like your MMR, but your post over here:

Is just as close as a conspiracy theory, there’s just so many things you are not considering in this that makes it completely redundant, calls me sock puppet when you are also posting stuff like this with “no proof, it just happened I was there”… Ever heard of anecdotal evidence? That’s what you are now.

I am sure it’s far from perfect but also comes from the fact there’s just so many people in this weird mindset that they belong higher when they not and the fact that the ladder is always a competitive environment and that things changes.

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Yes, from a rational perspective, what I wrote could apply to myself – that’s part of the point of being self-aware – however, the leading different is

  1. context
  2. content
  3. consistency

What I’ve written in regards to you, miles, and others, points out that you don’t read things through, choose to be uninformed, drawn bad conclusions from incomplete information, and continue to ignore relevant details that I’ve posted that frustrate the positions you want to take.

Of what I’ve written, the best ‘defense’ you put up comes down to overgeneralizations, trying to sweep things under the rug, deflect the concerns expressed into strawmen, ad hominems, and red herrings that look to discredit me by making observably false statements that are likely based on the continued issues of ignorance, not reading things through, ignoring content and context, etc etc.

The ability for something to show authority of knowledge is in it’s ability to make predictions. That is to say, someone has a theory, puts it to the test, and the conclusion turns out sufficiently consistent that they have provided a possibly valid explanation.

Of what you and other detractors have posted, you don’t really have consistent ‘proof’ to match the claim; by comparison, of what I’ve written, you two have demonstrated conduct consistent with my claim.

You don’t deny the information that I’ve expressed – largely because you probably don’t understand how it matters – and at most try to slap some label on me that was incorrect before you even posted it, and at best are trying to blame me for your instances and pretend that magically refutes what I wrote.

Part of the issue of that claim is understanding the difference of position in an argument. Since most people don’t actually understand much about debate or arguments, or anything of the like, a simpler comparison would be to lawyers: some of the things the prosecution does do not work the same way for the defense, and vice versa.

What is a ‘fallacy’ of claim from one perspective does not invalidate the opposition to point that out. You don’t seem to have ever considered that what so ever, which isn’t that surprising because the basis of your position is generally made out of ‘feel’-based evidence – and looking to support that – instead of other alternatives.

Similarly, your grasp of the possibilities in this is pretty much polarized – one of two things – and unfortunately, there’s simply more than two possibilities.

Your little ‘celebration’ (the ‘Booyah’) in this is a better demonstration of what you don’t know, and choosing to revel in your ignorance by continuing to ignore or even misconstrue what is written in response to you.

The attempt to assert that I do the same things ('e.g. chronic contrarian) was demonstrably false before you even wrote that; trying to assert that know and act like it’s valid is simply trying to do the childish “[I’m] rubber and you’re glue”

Part of the trouble with trying to point out the shortcomings of people that revel in that sort of ignorance is that’s is a cognitive bias and influences how they’re even willing to process certain types of information.

Of you reply, you see 'bias, bias, bias", but you neglect what I wrote in the first place: “everyone is biased” What matters is how its used.

So you continue to neglect what I wrote, don’t actually check on the ‘how it’s used part’ and draw a conclusion that’s a day late and a dollar short to the party – you’re literally days behind a conclusion that’s at most is a “no duh” moment that completely neglects why I even wrote that about what I wrote.

Logically, you can’t assert that I’m not ‘self aware’ when the entirely of your ‘gotcha’ claims stems from my pointing out a ‘truth’ that has to be applicable to my position and therefore already takes it into consideration.

THAT is part of the issue of interacting with people try to pretend that ignorance is power; you’re still behind on even getting much out of the first post you replied to me, and it’s not like you’re actually going to go back and read any of that to see how behind you are in this exchange.

Frankly, that’s inexcusable to me because this is a written medium and people can always go back, check, and be better informed before they make their reply. But you haven’t done that, likely won’t do that, and you’ll probably even persist in reveling that you won’t do that.

That sort of conduct is expressly why a lot of issues of ‘matchmaking’ tend to be ones of perception – people neglecting relevant information because they think they have their ‘gatcha’ moment already – and why your disconnect on understanding what “bias” does in this turn defeats your ignorant reply before you even made it. And then you oddly celebrate that you even made such a thing.

A key difference in this exchange is that I actually do post rebuttals. You just disagree with something, and don’t have the information to know the difference.

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Addition of the beginning of the sentence mine. Context: discussing ideas he has heard on why a game shouldn’t necessarily always try to give 50/50 matches.

Talking about him running Wolfenstein: enemy territory servers way back. States his personal opinion. Doesn’t say said system is implemented or will be implemented in HotS, given that this is from 2016.

I might, yes. Not much of a coder myself, but if I were leading development of a multiplayer game I would at least try to be on the same page with the people doing the coding on whether the system is supposed to be fair or malicious. However if Jackson came and said the matchmaker is actually trying to screw me over, I might not have the integrity, unlike some people here probably, to not believe him even if a system engineer never came to give full details.

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Also doesn’t mean it isn’t not implemented in Hots.

He worked for Activision go figure. Do you think this is the first time he made this presentation?

Take a look at Trueskill mm, are you guys still insisting on a simplistic mmr averaging? You don’t even need an undergraduate for that.

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95% of what you wrote is still not relevant to the topic. You actually admitted you are verbose, drowning the real topic with irrelevant fluff.

Do you think you are responding to every crucial points I made? NOPE. You are ignoring them and instead you are making lectures on “Booyah”, NOT RELEVANT. Nobody here cares about you dissecting “Booyah”. Again you are insisting attacks on personals not the argument.

If anything you fail to recognize that I said it to counter you passive aggresive emoji in your prev post. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Like i said doubt mongers.

You’re just spouting confirmation bias and using bad perceptenges to act like you read something that you haven’t

At the end of the post, you’re still doing the thing I described you were doing, trying to revel in ignorance, and not understanding the correlation of people that don’t understand something finding themselves in situations that they’re frustrated by their own [lack[ of knowledge.

However, so long as they have something else to blame, they will refuse to learn, to adapt, and to do better.

I mean, take your catch phrase to heart here: A “doubt monger”

If my position is that people are frustrated as a consequence of their own ignorance, and they’re demonstrably ignorant on something, then they should doubt their knowledge and look to learn something more.

However, you haven’t even bothered to think through your own gripe and just wear this pathetic attempt at an insult/label like it’s a badge of honor because you haven’t thought through the implications of what you’re trying to even convey.

You’re just disagreeing because you don’t know any better, refuse to read more to find out otherwise, and have so narrow a perspective on the outcomes at hand, that you just wallow yourself in a bad sense of pride because you’re not going to put in the effort to have a different out come.

You were predicted long before you replied to me, and you don’t have the integrity to read otherwise. And so long as you have anything else to blame, you’ll keep on keeping on.

Consider this: of all the stuff I’ve written, you just repeat yourself despite reading little to any of it. Human processing would demand some sort of change to different stimuli, but you treat it all the same. On the other hand, I’ve rephrased different particulars, addressed different points, and actually shown an active involvement in an attempt at ‘discussion’

If you want to be worry about ‘failure’ here, then you might want to reconsider that a written medium means this stuff lasts; you can go back and actually inform yourself accordingly at any point instead of replying with impulse and assumption.

To note: at no point in any of this have to actually denied any of the conclusions I’ve drawn from your conduct. If I were to assume that you’re being as honest as I am, then you’re inability to deny drawn conclusions from the given evidence pretty much means you agree with it, or at least can’t ‘refute’ it, and are only then trying to belittle others to distract from that reality.

But since it’s more likely they you just don’t notice those things, you’re really doing yourself a disservice to this forum, the game you play, and pretty much anywhere else you go to carry on that same effectively dishonest conduct.

I’ve already explained how that has been relevant to the game and discussion; it’s on you to stop being liar. However, since you assume you’re ‘right’ and that people only disagree out of being ‘wrong’, then you project that they have to be dishonest instead. So you rationalize a poor excuse to not read stuff, repeat yourself, and completely cut out how to be a ‘rational’ creature.

In a topic wanting ‘explanations’ the ability to get, and understand that stems from being ‘rational’ in the first place. So part of my whole “people frustrate themselves” thesis pretty much comes as a consequence of people trying to claim their irrationality is anything but.

To which, again, if you thought your ‘comeback’ through, you should actually doubt such ignorance, laziness, dishonestly, and automated gainsay because those are qualities that just lead to people frustrating themselves.

But at best you’re going to be all “Ha, see, i called it right” and then miss the entirety of what I wrote because that’s what you’ve been doing this whole time and missed the boat on how that shows you to be wrong.

Which, as you should note, simply couldn’t actually be the case despite the above posts by other not-Xenterex exchanges going on demonstrate that the riles some of these people take with the matching (for this topic) actually do stem from assumption and bad conclusions from incomplete information.

So even without my posts, the ‘proof’ is there that these sort of attitudes don’t work, were ‘proven’ wrong, and were predicted to do that well before you decided repeating yourself was a better use of your time than just reading this stuff through the first time.

I’m ‘verbose’ because I’ll put in the time to actually try to explain this stuff out. That’s just another bad claim you’ve made, was proven wrong before you even made it, and you’re still not going to bother to think through ‘why’

And that’s on you.

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Doubt mongers. Everything he wrote is to instill doubt in you, don’t let him. Just give him the finger.

I cldn’t care less what you wrote, at this point it’s so predictable its formulaic. Yeah keep goin. Everybody will figure you out.

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And neither does it mean it is implemented, but we’ll leave it at that. Activision also publishes a lot of games, with varying kinds of matchmakers. And while it’s true he may have held the same presentation more than once, the quotes were from the Q&A part so it’s not like it was part of the original presentation. Being pretty interesting idea for other developers present to mull over, it’s a shame he left it out from the presentation.

Outside sources such as HeroesProfile uses similar system to give their own estimation of player skill. Because they’re using HotS as a black box, their MMR averaging system should start showing some kind of divergent behavior eventually if it didn’t match but so far it seems to be a pretty good fit.

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Don’t take puppets seriously. As a developer I would also be glad to have these manipulated people on my side, they do god’s work for free and keep the critical people somewhat away.

No public mmr = matchmaking flaws to hide

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You know that on SL the MMR is public, right? They made it that way some times ago (I think it was when they created Storm League but I may be wrong here).
If you want a single number for your MMR you just need to add all your ranked points from Bronze 5 to your current spot. Not the most intuitive way but there it is.

Following your argument, since the MMR is not hidden, they don’t have any “flaws” to hide. Right?

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Yes there is as far as I know they did this in this patch:

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That’s a really long-winded way of saying “the 50% winrate is real and bad players will force good players to lose by being placed on their team”

There are a lot of blowouts because you condensed a 45-60 minute dota match into a 15-20 minute match and accelerated the snowbally nature of mobas. It’s just poor game design that resulted from Blizz’s “makes casuals feel like they are pro” CoD-ish design… further compounded by the fact that quick match is the main mode for all of your games.

It’s literally what you said.

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There is no disadvantage for premades vs solo. That was removed long time ago, at times when blizzard started to buff team league and hero league was the most popular game mode. That hasn’t existed in hots for years now. Blizzard didn’t want to discourage premades. And they never added that disadvantage back to the game.

Any source for that? Patch notes or dev tracker on reddit show no such comment.

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Are the team/enemy team mmr visible inGame by now too?

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Yea, it’s a written form of communication, If people read it, they will ‘figure it out’. That’s the whole point of writing something for people to read.

You really don’t think through your complaints at all, do you?

If people are wrong about something, get riled up over wrong information and assumptions they’re supposed to “doubt” that because it’s wrong.

You’re like someone writing 2+2=5 on your schoolwork and your response is to ignore people that tell you how counting works and apparently “give them the finger”

If you look at any instance of news, problem, crisis, pandemic, state of emergency, and other sort of anything else going on, those problems have escalated because of attitudes like yours that deny anything that doesn’t agree with them, give everyone “the finger” and act like “name calling” is magically going to make all those problems go away.

It takes a sad amount of denial to not see how your magical labels don’t apply that much more to yourself than anyone else you call them, let alone continue to ignore how ‘stupid’ they are – to borrow “Miles” description of how people are clearly not an issue for themselves /s

Which is part of why the devs here continue to ignore chronic complainers such as yourself.

In these posts you have with other people, it keeps coming out that you’re poorly informed, make too many assumptions, and then act like it’s someone else’s fault.

If you had concerns about ‘people’ being a puppet to be a bad thing, you wouldn’t be one yourself. You’re too busy assuming strings exist around others to notice how tangled you own in your self-inflicted ignorance.

Rank = mmr, that has been posted several times now, do yourself a favor and actually bother to read things more than 3 words long.

It’s a disservice to everyone else that “puppets” like you don’t know how to actually bother to read and rely entirely on the impulse of “agree/disagree”

If you had half the sense you claim people should have, you’f have noticed the basic conduct of what creates “conspiracy theory” notice why they’d bad, and not do that.

But instead, you call stuff names (as a form of blaming) deny relevanet information that doesn’t agree with your assumptions, and persist in blaming other people because you act like that’ll magically fix things.

It hasn’t it doesn’t, it won’t.

Time and again. There is literally not excuses to pretend that ignoring information is magically empowering esp in a topic where the context is literally to ‘explain’ things.

Being ‘critical’ of something isn’t carte blanche for complaining; it’s supposed to go alongside “thinking”, ie “critical thinking” but apparently you didn’t get the memo on that.

Rank = mmr

Portraits in matching show rank, so it shows approximations of mmr. Since the picture doesn’t show if it’s low end, mid, or high, of each demarcation, then it’s not ‘exact’ but mmr isn’t an ‘exact’ number anyways and anyone that tries to claim otherwise doesn’t know know mmr/elo works in the first place.

Which is part of the problem with this type of topics: the “critical” people don’t know so much information, but yet they feel empowered to complain about things that generally stem from their ignorance.

However, since they’re too busy trying to come up with magical nicknames to call everyone else (as a way to hide or celebrate their ignorance) they refuse to then be informed. The internet is a literal library of resources people can do a quick search to verify that information and become informed on these particulars instead of wasting weeks of replies blaming anyone else that tries to “take your seriously” enough to offer an answer your question that has been answer some dozen times in this topic alone.

And even then, you’re not going to take that one tidbit of information (if mmr is ‘shown’) and think “gee, maybe I should actually check an article on how team-based matching mmr works” you’re just going to take that one little bit, act like its 5000 bits of information and try to lord your arrogance over other posters as an excuse to persist in denying information you don’t know to be relevant.

Seeing your replies is like watching the vegan dieters writing reviews for restaurants of which they haven’t eaten: they just assume the menu, flavor, treatment, and make up whatever they want because being “critical” is so valuable that anyone can magically do it, but somehow it never occurs to them that having an informed opinion ins magically more valuable than an ignorant one.

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(16:10)

“Ideal matchmaking:
Designer ideal:
-Put players into matches that are fun.
-Have a planned experience with varying intensity (easy, even, hard)”

It’s not the main topic of this presentation, but the concept is there. If you look at his linked profile, he did work for Blizzard.

I never insisted that whatever I said is 100% right unless I have the matchmaking code in front of me which will never happen.