Please remove "compelled fairness"

This kind of system would ruin the game. The average person would become frustrated, losing huge numbers of games, and quit, shrinking the playerbase down massively. Even the top end players would eventually become bored due to lack of competition, and quit. It would be every bit as boring as vs AI.

But chess is a 1v1 with unchangeable variance of factors and rules (and by rules in this case think hero’s abilities). Kasparov over there doesn’t suddenly has his pawns spit fire and eat a piece 4 blocks away after turn 7, know what I’m saying?
This method is not as accurate nor useful when applied to a team-based game with such high variance of performance, and this variance is also a double factor variance, this means that not only each of the several players on a single match must be considered for the equation, but that each of those player counts for double variance, himself and the character in game he is using each time. The variance then becomes way too big for this method to be consistent.

I agree player base is a big problem, though, but, still, forcing (or trying to match) players to compensate each other is a wrong move. IMHO.

Then, I don’t see much of a problem with smurfing (for this particular case alone), in fact smurfing is a good remedy, since the good, more experienced player will advance, while the bad player won’t. Think of this, friend, why people even have the necessity to smurf in the first place? Mostly to escape the badly implemented system that traps them forever in a mediocre, pretty much forced, 50% ratio way earlier than they deserve! In the end, if they smurf and advance, they are being proved right, the system was unfairly screwing them.

I algo agree there is no clear solution, but if we never try, how are we going to find out? All I say is, never try to force results, let people compete and prove their own worth by themselves. That’s all.

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Don’t have to apologize, you are decidedly kind to everyone. I think. :wink:

You may or may not have, the point is I think there is a causation. If people are shunned for expressing ideas or opinions, they learn to shut up.

It’s like facing the opposition in the parliament. Whatever you say, somebody will dissect your idea. It takes a bit of getting used to it to deal with it.

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This is for sure true, I know I’m timid to ask certain questions for this very reason. I think the only kind of comment I don’t really like is “remove this” where the person who posts gives no reason why. It makes it very hard to engage with, because it’s just a subjective dislike or compliant with no details.


No wonder why he is an average player, then :smiley:

Jokes, aside. That’s the point, though. Good players should advance, bad players shouldn’t. You shouldn’t screw the good player to make the bad player feel good.

True is, however, that Blizz needs a player base to make business, and unfortunately, most people are bad enough at anything that will simply abandon the ship at the slightest inconvenience. Irony, indeed, 'cause it would be a better, more fair system than what we have now.


You are right to believe in self-improvement. BUT…
Oh, another one:


Here it is message from a dev who sadly was the last to leave:

(This is for you Hoku. Let us keep passing on this post that was apparently largery ignored… missed by me in the first place included.)

Now, I agree that too much often, even without any bias from the system, you end up having to carry for a whole team of weak allies (speaking as a mostly QM playing guy… although solo ranked is not that much better in this regard), which you can not always lead to victory alone, especially when a bad hero comp MM adds up to it.
The OP’s suggestion of more balanced matches is sound in the end. We should be paired with and matched against comparable playing skill levels with only slight differences to secure accuracy in game balance and skill gradual improvement (instead of absolute situations which help NOTHING AT ALL).


so as such game never has have this default.
We have not added into this search game finder.

Hard for remove no exist :smiley_cat:

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QM mains wont accept this but the fact is there is less competition at 3k MMR quick match than there is at even middle diamond SL.

3k in SL is much harder to get and maintain because the level of play is higher.

Someone who is one of the top QM players on a server may only be a Dia 5 in SL.

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Please rephrase that?.. :thinking:
Me no native English speaker and me no understand

no matchmaker on Heroes of the Storm try to make streaks of autowinr and autoloser.

I would say qm and ranked is both same lvl of skill.
Qm force you to play againts multiple counters towards your hero.
Ranked gives you the ability to remove those counters making the game more easy as long you draft a good team.

There are not much diffrents from qm and ranked other than the draft mode.
When you enter the game It could just be another qm game you entered but with a team you made and not matchmaker.

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Force you too, that is unsure. Do you have any proof of this? I can only testify from personnal experience that this happens (too) often. Is it the case for everyone?

I spam QM pretty much ever since July last year, barely touching SL since climbing to Master because I don’t have interest anymore. And seeing a HUGE season like this is not epic either mind you, too stressful with my current workflow on top of University related stuff.

I mainly and have hovered around 2.8k, going up and down constantly, if people imply they are good at the game then QM MMR is not something I would use as an argument point.

I disagree heavily with this, QM teaches and trains terrible habits which translates well in (almost) organized play like SL or even Unranked to some extent.

And saying both QM and SL having not much difference is just a reach, if anything that was discussed here needs to be repeated:

  1. QM matches based on average MMR means there’s no MMR gap, so you can have Bronze with Masters vs Masters with Bronze as a possibility.
  2. The Average MMR gap between both teams can be sometimes large.
  3. Because the game wants to simple faster queue times it doesn’t care about limited MMR sizes so it becomes pretty much what was implied, see 1) in this list.
  4. Blindly going into matches is a highly debatable situation of skill similarity to SL and sometimes they become so intrusively bad that its not worth the shot in the first place, most SL games do not pick 4 galaxy brain hard counters to 1 choice and I am very assured anyone would agree with this.

QM is in design with the current state of the game is fundamentally flawed but that problem put short is out of hand because of this one thing:


How? See Latam and ANZs servers current state, its quite sad.

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How many times have you played qm where enemy team had one or two counters to you ?
Only way you can learn your own hardcounters is to play againts them insteed of just banning them away.

When you ban a hero you already said to yourself you dont want to play againts that hero with the hero you want to draft. You see it now ? Ranked just makes it easy for you while in qm you learn to play againts them.


I don’t have the exact stats in front of me right now for a game is currently loading but I have several thousand QM games on my account. And yes I very often meet more than one counter hero in the nnemy team.

Its possible that your counters are just popular right now. Who do you like to play usualy?

I do not believe this is a matter of “recently”. As far as I remember, this has always been so.
My mains are, in frequency order:

  • Alarak
  • GulDan
  • Valla
  • Ana
  • Artanis
  • Nova

I also have a bit of experience with Anduin and Blaze, but I would not call them mains. All other heroes are between lvl 5 and lvl 25.

To complete my previous post, I am close to 8000 QM games. Some players have more for sure, but that does not dismiss this from being a good testifying sample.

ain’t that the truth regarding bans kind of spoiling players and making them ignorant, and depriving them of actual experience. QM gives you a more comprehensive understanding of the game because Ranked doesn’t give you as much exposure to the unorthodox. Especially if you rig it to have the bans in your or your friend’s control in ranked.

though I do question “how to play against counters”…sometimes the matchups are so one-sided the best solution is just not pick that hero against that hard counter period because the effectiveness of your pick drops too much. but against softer counters, yeah it can help you mitigate issues. and hey, that knowledge is nice to have and QM gives you the bumps and bruises you need to understand when to pick a hero and when not to.


Problem is I can run any cheese comp with 4 friends any time I want in QM too against a bunch of randoms.

Pumps Win rate unnaturally high and is not related to skill.

This is a reach, QM has always been a victim of teaching terrible habits that do not working outside of noob stomping and getting a process of thinking talents or builds as “broken” or “best build” when they are put into analysis they fall flat as terrible, and this has happened over the course of years for many heroes, TLV underestimated to misinterpreting Ragnaros actual main build not being around Heat Blast to people thinking Tracer’s Ricochet a trap (pre rework, specifically, people thought leeching rounds heal or bullet spray was better when ricochet was the pick in all situations) or even believing Kerrigan is dumpster fire (she’s nothing close to it).

As for bans, bans alters the drafting process and are not just used to ban flavor of the month meta heroes, whilst meta is presently used as guidance of a ban, it occurs based on the situation of the draft or the map you are playing in, not acknowledging this is true ignorance.