Nah we definitely will, because his trait allows him to stay in lane farming xp and then fly to the team fight at the right moment.
We haven’t seen his full kit yet, but the devs openly said his laning ability is pretty weak and they don’t think we’ll see him solo-laning much.
I mean… you can check it ingame, on the net.
Knowing > believing.
He’s labeled as a Tank.
3 Likes
Stop spamming E and you’ll be fine.
He was, but ever since 2018 September they really want to push him to tank.
This is very false. A good malthael can win most fights.
I think people are bad with him the same they consider Tassadar bad. Both their dmg are slow but not low. Malthael can do crazy dmg numbers
Even outdamaging mings in teamfights
Just look at this. Harbinger said this fight was a mess but look at the dmg but also the big anti heal on dehaka. His plays combined with a good healing won the teamfight
(If anyone knows another in combat video plz let me know)
Only against opponents of noticeably lower skill. I consistently beat Malthaels in 1v1s while playing ETC and Blaze, and I’ve even done it as heroes I have significantly less experience on. The only heroes I consistently see Malthael able to 1v1 is Diablo and Garrosh due to their relatively low damage output and vulnerability to %-based damage and sustain.
And we have more than just anecdotal evidence here. The math adds up, too. Depending on their build, ETC and Blaze’s self-sustain can range from slightly to significantly higher than Malthael’s, and ETC’s single-target DPS is actually a fairly close match for Malthael.
High total damage =/= effective damage. If that damage isn’t securing kills or allowing others to, it’s just numbers padding. It doesn’t matter if you have the highest hero damage in the game if the enemy team has over twice as many kills as yours.
Malthael tends to get a high damage score because he can damage so many enemies at once, but the fact that it’s so spread out means it usually isn’t all that impactful. He relies incredibly heavily on his ult for meaningful damage.
200 DPS at base level sounds great until you realize that spread out over 3+ enemies. Then it isn’t so impressive, just a measley ~70 DPS to each target on average.
Most heroes with any sustain at all, such as tanks, can easily support such wimpy single-target DPS, especially since many of them can deal back equal or more damage.
Malthael’s main use in teamfights is suppression and pressing R.
This is a really poor clip of Malthael to use as an example of how strong he is. Not to say Harbinger isn’t a good Malthael, but he wasn’t joking when he said that fight was a mess.
First off, the enemy team had almost no focus. He was basically free to run amok because their team split so badly and their only single-target damage dealer was Falstad. Even then, we seem him nearly die even without Flastad there to burn him down near the end, and he literally only survives because of Li Li.
Second, Malthael did almost no damage in that fight. Honestly his biggest contribution was the heal negation on Dehaka, who is one of the few heroes it is ever worth picking Touch of Death against (Rehgar being the other, but he missed that negation on the Ancestral; maybe it was off cooldown?). Other than preventing that heal, you hardly see him have any effect on the enemy team’s healthbars. They just sort of ignore his tickle damage, which is pretty much standard.
His Li Ming was the one who carried that fight. I wouldn’t be surprised if she ended up with less damage overall at the end of the game, but she was the one who was chunking the enemy team down to actually kill them, rather than just slowly tickling away their healthbars.
If we compare that performance to what pre-rework Malthael would have done, we would have seen significantly lower total damage but he likely would have actually killed that Falstad and burned through Dehaka a lot quicker.
His trait states that he does 100% more damage against heroes. None of his abilities are geared specifically for single target. He’s meant to be with the 4 man. The devs said as much.
Hey 
I can show better combat videos but I wanted to show how tanky he can be
if he asked I could have given a better example
I’d agree but he’s extremely vulnerable to strong trades. Characters who can soak or heal off his damage and then poke in exchange could be dangerous.
But likewise, he’ll be trouble when he brings someone with big crowd control to the lane.
Malthael is a God against the right setups, i play him alot. Just like many other heroes however… u can’t just say “Oh, i’ll go Malthael” when the opponent team has strong setup against him. Just like Tychus, KTZ , Butcher etc ain’t good against some setups.
The enemy team had no focus because I was drawing it away from them. I placed my mark on falst in order to confuse them and escape.
This was a dia1 / masters game so they have focus but I put my aggro on
I did tons of dmg in the fight remember there are marks and this was post 16 and I do aoe
Not sure how ming can carry when being cacooned and missing a Q / W
Mark of death can be used a lot. Raynor guldan alex auriel just to name a few. Basicly anyone who can heal a good amound under 4s
Malth can win most duels vs any other hero, you just need to be smart when doing it
He does a lot of dmg to squichys.
And now getting played a lot in the qualifiers matches. Even as a 2nd dmg dealer in one match
But if you find him bad okay then thats your oppinion. I found a way to found him work with a 75% winrate on ranked in 79 matches
2 Likes
Im not quite sure you knows how his dmg works?
And if you looked at what ming actually did. She just finished with E
Li li carried in the way she kept malth alive.
But her healing came when the teamfight was already won. Everyone of them were low and only malth of his team was low
But those comments you made says enough about overal gamesence. Especially this one
I think you never faced a good one. But that can also say a lot about rank
in 2019 people still want buffs to a character because they are not able to comprehend how to play him correctly.
If your having a issue using a Hero effectively…use a different hero
Best advice in HoTs
Feel free. I’d like to see a situation where he doesn’t instantly melt as soon as he’s focused.
You were drawing focus away from the rest of your team onto yourself. If they hadn’t tried to ignore you like Anub’arak, Junkrat, and Falstad did in favor of trying to kill your Li Ming, you’d have been squished when they collapsed on you. Malthael simply does not have enough sustain or damage mitigation to power through that kind of damage anymore.
Half of them were aggroed onto Li Ming, not you. Did you see how low she got?
They split their damage up and ended up wasting it. That’s why you won that fight.
I have no doubt you got big damage numbers out of that fight. The question is whether those numbers were actually all that meaningful. Considering that their healthbars hardly moved unless someone else was hitting them as well, I’d say your tickle damage was pretty limited in impact.
Li Ming wasn’t the one cocooned. That was Li Li.
Li Ming nuked Anub’arak big time at the beginning of the fight. She’s why Rehgar burned Ancestral Heal in the first ~5 seconds of the fight, which is a big deal.
She also saved your rear at the very end when she Q-E’d in onto them; even 2-3 more seconds would have left you dead.
There are only a few heroes I would ever recommend picking Touch of Death over Cold Hand against, and Raynor, Gul’dan, and Alex are none of them. Rehgar is one, for his Ancestral, Stitches is another. Auriel, Zul’jin, Uther, Stukov, Whitemane, Thrall, Leoric, Sonya, Dehaka, and maybe Yrel are the only others, and in many cases there’d need to be more than just one of them. It’s very niche and requires good timing to use, while Cold Hand just provides so much utility that it’s hard to justify ever passing it up.
If the other hero is also smart and playing a hero even mildly capable of dueling, they should be able to hold off if not beat Malthael handily.
I love seeing Malthael’s come at me 1v1 out of lane when I’m playing Zul’jin or Blaze. If I’m Zul’jin, he either runs or I kill him. If I’m Blaze, he either runs, or our fight takes forever and our teammates show up to turn it into a gank or a teamfight.
Not enough to duel most non-Mages.
Notice the “2nd” part? They’re picking him for Last Rites, not as a dedicated DPS.
I don’t find him “bad” overall. I find the core aspects of his pre-rework playstyle, the parts that I really enjoyed and picked him for, rather disappointing.
I feel about Malthael’s rework the same way I feel about Tyrande’s, except more strongly.
He’s most definitely not bad like OP is claiming. He’s just bad at the things I used to enjoy doing with him, such as brawling and dueling. He’s very good at finishing and solo-laning to make up for it, but those aren’t roles I enjoy all that much.
If you enjoy those roles enough to put in the time, that’s entirely up to you. If he’s good at the things you like, by all means you should play him to your heart’s content.
Unfortunately for me, he’s no longer good at the things I like, so I no longer play him.
I’m not quite sure you do.
For your information, Malthael’s basic attacks deal 82 damage 0.91 times a second, or once every ~1.1 seconds. For a grand total of 75 DPS. This is lower than most tanks and even a few supports, and it is that low because it cleaves.
Malthael’s basic attacks apply Reaper’s Marks, which deal 1.75% of the target’s health every second for 4 seconds. A single application totals 7.5% of the target’s maximum health.
Soul Rip deals 100 damage to Marked targets up to once every 2 seconds, for a total of 50 DPS.
Wraith Strike deals 59 damage to a single Marked target up to once every 5 seconds, for a total of 12 DPS.
At base level, Malthael’s total damage output against Stitches, the highest base health hero in the game (excluding Cho), is 75 + 50 + 12 + (0.0175 x 3060) = 191 maximum DPS.
This is Malthael’s maximum possible DPS at base level. This requires that he be constantly basic attacking and spamming abilities against the beefiest base health Tank in the game.
At that rate, it would take Malthael almost 16 seconds to kill Stitches. That is an absurdly long time-to-kill, and that isn’t even allowing Stitches to fight back or heal with Devour, which would increase Malthael’s TTK against Stitches to over 23 seconds. That’s right, we’re talking almost half a minute, and that’s assuming a perfect situation for Malthael, where he doesn’t have to worry about CC or being kited or killed himself.
Oh, and spamming his Q and W like that will run Malthael out of mana in about 30 seconds, so he’d better make sure he’s full on mana before then.
Malthael’s single target DPS is laughable. Raynor has almost that much DPS with just his AA’s and trait alone, not even factoring in his W, and he can AA almost constantly.
The main reason Malthael is viable at all is because he can deal his tickle damage to so many enemies at once. He is very effective at stressing out burst- and single-target healers. If he couldn’t deal that damage so widely, he’d be garbage.
Oh, and his ult’s finishing power. That’s the other huge reason people pick him.
Were you not paying attention when she nuked down Anub’arak at the beginning of the fight, forcing Rehgar to blow Ancestral early?
And it’s not like the fact that she nuked them down with her E makes what I said any less correct. She was the one who was doing the chunking. She’s the reason those heroes died before the rest of her team.
And? If she wasn’t there, Malthael would have died there. His own sustain is not high enough to sustain him through the focus fire of even just 3 non-single-target-focused heroes.
If Falstad and Junkrat, or either one of them alone, hadn’t had to run away because of Johanna whaling into them, Malthael definitely would have died there, Li Li or no.
If the enemy team had collapsed on him at the beginning of the fight, he would have died almost instantly and his team would likely follow quickly.
Malthael’s own sustain is not that high. It’s consistent, but not high.
So you’re saying that never, in the almost two years since Malthael’s rework, have I ever come across a Malthael who wasn’t trash? None?
That’s quite a bit of a stretch, buddy, even ignoring the fact that several Tanks have comparable single-target DPS and self-sustain to Malthael, even ignoring their CC.
No, far more likely it’s just that Malthael is no longer suited for dueling.
2 Likes
BTW, prepare for your winrate to climb even higher. Deathwing gonna feed Malthael hard.
I wonder if they’ll have to cap the amount of damage DW can take from % damage…
His health is only slightly higher than stitches according to the stream. So even malthael against deathwing won’t be anything amazing. No doubt he’d blow him up faster than malthael’s q’s can go off
Huh, from the stream his health looked a lot higher than that. Maybe it was just the healthbar aesthetics.
Yeah it looks bigger than it is. I’m sure the armor helps add a lot to it
I actually dont know. Many here say it but I actually think Jimmy valla and Fenix will be the biggest counter because they attack really fast and he is a reverse garrosh.
So hard for the first 10% then easyer
But we will see! Im wondering if last riting him is even worth it ( i know for the stack but I rather want to use it on someone for the dmg)