This is coming from someone who have played around 200 games with her. Her only good talents where I can actually feel a difference in the way she plays is only her two level 1 talents, en pointe and ancestral strength. Other than that her other talent tiers are nothing more than just “pick the talent that sucks the least”, where they’re either super situational or provide minimal increases in power. There has never been a time where I was like “yay I’m level 13/16/20 now I’m stronger”; in fact those levels I would fear that the enemy team is stronger if we are on the same talent tier.
Her best talent at level 20 is nothing more than a situational spell power talent that other ranged assassins get at level 16 or even 13, and her best level 7 talent is a worse version of Mephisto’s quest that he gets at level 1. Both her level 10 ultimates are subpar. They’re hard to land and even if you do land them you don’t get much benefits.
I can understand why her talents suck - because her base kit is really really good. In fact I wouldn’t really say it’s her base kit, but rather, her Q. It’s one of the best abilities in the game - it provides damage, mobility, mana sustain, health sustain all at level 1. However, once everybody gets to level 13 or 16 then her baseline healing becomes nothing special, because other ranged assassins get their form of sustain that is better and less situational to apply.
I really love playing her and I think she’s very fun to play, but let’s be honest here, her playstyle is the same every game - hit your Q’s and pray you don’t miss your Qs. Win early game trades and get a lead because you fall off hard late game because your later talents suck. Other heroes have the problem of having mandatory talents with a poor base kit, and I think Orphea’s problem is the exact opposite. I think she’s due for a mini-rework.
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I totally agree with your analysis, but after Kerrigan’s and Whitemane’s rework I’ve got a bit of fear when thinking of any change for Orphea, mostly because she works pretty fine. She’s so well rounded up and balanced that she’s in no actual need of changes, even if her talent tree is pretty “mono-dimensional” because her baseline kit is already very powerful as you said.
I think that just having a better windup time for every skill (expecially ultimates) will be enough to buff her: the +10% movement speed to everyone really hit her harder than other casters.
1, her E talent needs to be changed to something different. Maybe chomp radius?
Backbiter needs something else. My idea was a little pull, so whoever you chomp gets yanked a short distance back, making them an easier target for your team
7 is fine, I think. W quest for burst build, W resets for Q build, E quest if you accidentally picked orphea instead of chromie
Her level 13-16 could use some deeper examination (abyssal symbiosis is hilariously terrible).
At 20, final tocatta should probably have a passive where she doesn’t need to hit a hero to dash or something.
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Her percent damage-damage talent on 16 definitely is a big spike against tanky groups.
Both her heroic and the Q-spam talent are very good.
Yes, lets hope that if they ever do something it will be nothing but some talent changes/number buffs. It was worse enough with WM, but the thought of them killing off my second highest level hero is terrible.
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You don’t see a difference in her level 4 talents?
Allegrissimo is about long range poking and chase. Changes a hit from 2 sec cooldown to 0.75, which can be a substantial increase in damage output if you can land it consistently.
Backbiter gives a passive max health increase so you can more safely use the bonus damage and healing from her trait as well as giving another more reliable escape so you can position more aggressively. When paired with Insatiable it allows you to weave in and out of combat repeatedly.
Fright is more team supportish, and is arguably kind of weak especially given Dread’s long cooldown.
I’d say it’s just specific talents, not the whole tree in general.
Fright needs a bit more. Abyssal Symbiosis is supposed to be for 1v1ing I guess, but providing 2 extra chaos isn’t quite worthy of level 13. Lurking Terror just needs to not share a cooldown with Chomp. And her 20s
It did that on launch, and was quite overpowered. It gave her insane burst damage. I wouldn’t mind it having a lower cooldown though, maybe even the same cooldown as Chomp.
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I’m am/unranked, so take this with a grain of salt, but I love abyssal symbiosis, chomp resets on hit, more shadow waltz cd reduction, and then Eldritch conduit. Spammy fest fun time with 60% extra spell power is fun as hell.
The range increase is nice I guess, but at 16 it comes too late to make up for being unable to get in melee range to use chomp, and doesn’t offer any more on top of what you already do.
They could drop it to a lower talent tier, maybe combine it with Fright, but then it probably offers too much power at 7.
What else could they do with it?
Having its own cooldown does give her a lot of burst, but it is still tied to her getting in melee range while setting up ahead of time with Dread (though that’s often what she does anyway)
I think they could reduce its impact by making the Dread-Chomp untalented, or having it so when she uses either one it sets the other on a mini-cooldown of like 1.5 seconds.
I can’t agree more, but the fact is Orphea has the poorest game design. Her abilities are literally the same - instant AoE damage with no different effect. Obviously, to make her talent tree more interesting her abilities must be reworked first.
Sorry OP, I disagree. If it weren’t for you (I know you have a lot of games on her), I’d said “gut gud”.
Early game, I usually cannot wait to get to the next talent tier, because each feels so impactful. I usually go extra damage on Q, Backbiter, CDR on biting. Each talent majorly impacts the way I can play her, getting more and more aggressive each tier. At 7, she does feel like a battle dancer, dashing left and right like crazy.
I have to agree that 13 and 16 feel a bit less powerful. However, spell armor and % damage + heal never hurt.
Crushing Jaws upgrade at 20 is fantastic.
At the current moment, Orphea is my favourite mage to play and one of my favourite heroes overall. I would prefer she would not be touched for now…
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It does have the same cooldown as chomp, last i checked.
Oh, it totally does.
It needs a different buff, then.
How about
“casting Freight reduces Chomp’s current cooldown by 4 seconds”
?
That way, you cannot bite twice in quick succession for insane burst (as you could on release), but still get a minor dps increase. Also, you are not necessarily wasting a talent when casting Chomp the “regular way” (which is my biggest gripe with this talent).
I agree but for different reasons, Orphea to me feels like she has a cookie cutter build.
Tier 1 - Ancestral strength is too good not to take.
Tier 4 - Fright pairs too well with her entire kit (Her setup into her R is huge,+Tier1Dmg)
Tier 7 - Ravenous Hunger, I play around this talent, if you E - W a wave you get all 7 stacks, if you kill an enemy hero (super ez) you get 40 dmg, I have gotten up to 400 extra dmg on her W in one game.
Tier 10 - Crushing Jaws is amazing for setup and will allow you to get easy kills with your W
Tier 13 - Invasive Miasma to confirm kills
Tier 16 - Lurking Terror (Lets you poke or confirm kills of run aways or far away players)
Tier 20 - Engulfing Oblivion players caught in your ult will die
Now Orpheas cast sequence is extremely important if you are willy nilly casting abilities on CD you will miss out on a lot of free kills (or even open yourself up to be dove and killed)
If you have your ult ready cast E into R press D press W if they are still alive use your empowered AA and Q if needed.
Setting up with E into either W or Q is a good habit to get into. You may think you are good at landing skill shots, but if you miss your Q, a good team will dive you.
Give this a go and tell me what you think, I have a lot of fun on Orphea.
Are you sure you know what the word ‘instant’ means? Orphea is anything but instant, everything has (small) delays.
Orphea needs her quests at level 7 to go at level 1, that powerspike comes too late and i am not in favor of reducing the stacks too much either.