This is another issue too, people seem to forget that advanced technology doesn’t just mean you have better weapons.
It means you have better means of production, Terrans for example can build advanced battlesuits in minutes.
WWII perfectly illustrates this, as Russia’s superior ability to build (inferior) tanks had them building something like 4 tanks to every 1 tank the Germans could produce.
Exactly.
The Zerg can produce thousands of bioforms in a day from a cluster of Hatcheries and Lairs.
The Terrans can manufacture buildings and vehicles in hours, and a lot of those can be automated.
The Protoss can use hard-light constructs and warp themselves across vast distances to reinforce each other.
And their mobility is vastly superior too. There’s no way an Azerothian army could keep up with the virtually tireless march of Zerg bioforms, Terran powered armor and vehicles, and Protoss warriors and vehicles, let alone their Nydus Worms, Dropships, and Psionic Matrices.
Yeah, the scourge actually has a major problem in this set up.
They can only reinforce their standing forces with Zerg deaths (or randomly killing a nearby village).
Whereas the Zerg can easily devour any bio-mass, find a mineral vein and make a thousand more mutalisks.
This is actually the well-known problem with any Undead army, they are notoriously difficult to build their forces.
I could easily see Abathur realizing this and then making Zerg units decay away instantly or explode when killed. You can’t resurrect a corpse if you don’t have a corpse.
True, Banelings would be horrifically efficient at killing Scourge while minimizing necromancy.
The decay part seems incredibly unlikely though, as even skeletons are useful to the Scourge.
You know I feel like this conversation just evolved (pun intended) without me but I saw this line and wanted to bring something else up
See Arthas is an obvious, like REALLY obvious character to be inspire by Lord of the Rings Sauron
Now the reason I bring this up is because indirectly both characters draw from the same biblical inspiration as a result, seemingly all powerful beings, and just like each other they fell to a David to their Goliath, that’s the entire point of their downfall.
“Faith Alone. God’s Word says that we are saved by grace through faith in Christ Jesus and not by our own efforts or works:” - (Ephesians 2:8-9)
This passage sums of the phenomenon, as a result yes you can in fact make a case that the formless light and it’s deus ex machina is in fact more dangerous to a Goliath like Arthas then several tons of zerg.
Wait.
What?
Are you implying that the Christian Bible, the holy text of a non-fictional religion, gives Arthas, an undead and evil character from the fictional Warcraft universe, enough plot armor to survive having literally several thousand tons of Zerg, another fictional race from yet another fictional universe, trample over him?
Because that is the whackiest take I have literally ever heard on any comparison between two fictional opponents.
“Who would win, Goku or Superman?”
“Well, Hesiod’s Theogony says…”
Like, wtf?
FTFY
LOL guys, please, stop it.
You all already know the only true and proper answer to this question in your mind and hearts, even if you want to turn a blind eye to it. The only real victor in this clash would be the one the author chooses, regardless of any fictional “facts” of their own individual lore. And you all know it.
Ah, the magic of Plot Armor. No ward or shield l can ever hope to match it, no spell or weapon can ever hope to break it.
Anyways, we’re not talking about if someone wrote a story pitting the Zerg vs. the Scourge, because obviously then it would be entirely up to the author, regardless of whether it made any sense or not.
We’re talking about in a hypothetical conflict between them, based on all the information we have at hand, who would have the advantage and by how much? What is each side capable of, and how does that compare to the other?
No
What I’m saying is that we have no idea just how much energy was actually in the Ashbringer when it shattered forstmourne As a result you can’t use that particular event to say “oh this much less impressive thing stopped him”
That much less impressive thing had n element advantage the Zerg will neverh ave (Divine Vs Undead/shadow magic) and had the whole biblical applications I just explained.
All I’m pointing out is you can’t reliably use Thirion ‘s last ditch prayer as any kind of evidence because of those factors for all we know that was the force of millions upon millions of tons applied into a single strike
That still makes no sense because then it’s just an argument from ignorance.
What you’re literally saying here is:
We don’t know how powerful the strike was,
so therefore we should assume that it was more powerful than an Ultralisk stomping on Arthas.
That’s pretty silly.
Aside from this blatant assumption based entirely on a self-admitted lack of information, there’s also the issue that Frostmourne isn’t what the Ultralisk would be stepping or the Zerg ripping apart. Arthas is the target. Frostmourne wouldn’t be much of a threat to the Zerg if its wielder gets squished under a walking mountain or dissolved by hyper-corrosive acid or literally ripped to shreds by Zerglings.
Just because I’m bored right now, I want to prove just how absurd this is.
Just from a physics perspective, any force directed into Frostmourne would have to go somewhere. Just because you broke it doesn’t mean that force just disappears.
“Millions upon millions of tons” of force being focused like that would A) send fragments of Frostmourne flying away at supersonic speeds, B) be released into the air as sound and heat in the form of an overpressure wave, and C) reverberate back into Arthas and Tirion and then into the ground.
At least 2 of these would result in the instantaneous deaths of Tirion and Arthas. The level of energy released from a sword swing carrying a single megaton of force would total about 181.4 gigajoules. That is literally about 4 times higher than a god-damn MOAB (46 gigajoules), the most powerful non-nuclear weapon in the entire US arsenal.
I don’t give a damn what kinda magic armor you’re wearing, if there is anything than can kill or destroy a human-sized body, facetanking a point-blank MOAB or several would definitely do the trick. If you somehow survived enough thermal radiation to vaporize you, the overpressure shockwave would literally turn your body into red mist.
So clearly, “millions upon millions of tons” of force isn’t what actually happened there, as Tirion and Arthas and everyone around them weren’t instantly obliterated by the force of such a strike.
Much more likely you can just chalk it up to magic nullifying magic or other such “it’s magic, IAGES” nonsense.
Yeah… You’re not wrong, but I feel you’re missing the point.
You claimed that the Zerg could beat Arthas, because a group of adventurers could. But what others are saying is that those adventurers were only able to beat him because “the Light” intervened to nerf him.
Presumably, such a thing wouldn’t happen in aid of the Swarm, 'cause there’s no reason to believe the agendas of the Swarm and the Na’aru (or whoever controls the Light, I’m not up to date in my Warcraft lore) would align.
So their argument is that Arthas is pretty much literally invincible, except for that (also kind of literal) Deus-ex-Machina moment; and that he could just cast an insta-kill spell on everyone (including Kerrigan).
I never said it WAS stronger or less so, rather I reminded you we don’t knowthe specifics of that feat in response to you saying
Proposing a possible reason to suggest that it just might be the case that Arthas’ kryptonite could potnetially pose a bigger threat then thousands of zerg
IN short I was saying that these two things are incomparable due to the nature of how one effects Arthas given his context of weakness to Divine Elements
Furthermore while you may be right, how exactly is thousand sand thousands of zerg supposed to get to him at the exact same time, the only things that move even remotely fast enough to catch Arthas off guard with the telepathic powers of the is maybe a mutilisk and even then they are fairly easy to spot, and for someone who has teleportation in their arsenal, well there you go.
Furthermore given how Druids act in Warcraft and how they respond to animals, not to mention Arthas ressurecting Invincible, all of this points towards animals in Warcraft having souls
Well considering the Zerg when not connected to Kerrigan behave more like mammals then insects (and heck even the Primal Zerg play into this notion a million times more) Suggests that the Zerg have souls,
And considering the strength of soul it takes to not get just one shot by Arthas, there are only two… and both of those figures sure as hell have more will and spirit strength then an average zergling, it wouldn ot take much to rip the control of. Smll zerg force converging on him to his control
Yeah I know destructive feats and all that, but Hax wins out in the end that’s literally why they re called hax
Kerrigan says in a cinematic that she is capable of destroying worlds; Arthas can’t.
While there are divine entities in Warcraft that command more then mere mortals like the Na’aru, the “Light” itself is rather an element that can be summoned thorugh faith,
For example Preiestesses of Elune like Tyrande are drawing from the same divine element as Human paladins who summon “the light”
Tauren draw from waht they think is the Sun God, or the one of the eyes of the earth mother,
Things like that
Which goes full circle to what I was saying about “through faith not through works”
But I’m wondering, if the magic (arcane, fel, etc) in Azeroth has any physical aspect or anchor to it, maybe magical rocks, living vessels, or biological/evolutionary origins, there’s a very huge possibility that the Zerg, given enough time and exposure (if they’re not already actively seeking out magic), can assimilate those traits and in a matter of days be able to produce exotic traits able to wield Arcane or even Fel.
I don’t know how qickly they could pull it off but Arcane is a 100%, arcane magic is… well it’s just kind of there, it’s description isn’t that dissimilar to how the Force is described in Star Wars, the energy is just there and mages can reach into it
Divine is, welll they MIGHT but the thing is as I’ve gone into detail about divine is that the only way to really channel is is thorugh faith, nothing that is without sentience can truly summon it, even holy relics like the Ashbringer don’t really do much if you can’t channel it divine energy yourself
As for Fel, that is an interesting one because it’s entirely possible but because the energy is related so closely to the notion of Chaos and the corrupting nature of it infusing brood queens with the ability to channel Fel could lead to rebellion in some form and cause discord amongst the otherwise methodical zerg.
That’s a good question I like it, definitely interesting to think about.
I see your point there. But what if the Zerg gets their claws on the users of those magical energy? My thinking is that, is one is more attuned and inherently able to tap into Arcane, there must be a physical or biological factor that are at play right? If the Zerg can somehow carefully copy that specific trait, similar to how they copied psionic traits, wouldn’t certain breeds be able to also tap into Arcane? I agree with the Fel one you said, it’s definitely risky.
If the zerg could find a large enough source of magic, such as the elfen magic wells, they could start evolving, similar to how elfs evolved from trolls when exposed to the old well of eternity.