NEVER gonna be popular w/o personal experience

I game for 25+ years, I played in some competitive teams. I also played very casually and focused on real life later on.

I know people from both ends of the spectrum. They share a common point: None wants to rely on 4 other people they don’t know like it is in this game. None wants to be held accountable for the errors of some strangers on the internet. The majority, sheer vast majority of interactions are toxic and terrible in this game because one player being stupid matters way too much and effects other players way too much.

Out of hundreds of people I talked with, none of them were interested in playing HotS and the vast majority of people preferred LoL/Dota because they want to be able to carry games if they are significantly better than other people. None wants experience communism, none will ever start playing hots especially for ranked/competitive gaming. I could maybe get 4-5 people to install hots and they all quit after a week most, because of teamwide experience.

I haven’t posted a lot on these forums but here it is:
a. You as a company don’t care about HotS - just want the status quo to keep going with only a few thousand players globally playing, community shrinking day by day. Then you go with teamwide experience model.
b. You want the game to be popular and booming on player numbers: You go with personal experience and let players be able to make a huge difference in their games. This is what every good online game does.


Just wanted to add this:

https://gamesight.io/leaderboards/moba-games

HotS isnt even in top 10. It is a disgrace for a company like acti blizzard to have such a failure.

Other mobas have items, talents, skills, item combinations and on top of that - personal experience. I don’t cherish items too much but all these add layers to those games where one player can make a difference from each of these.

In hots you are stuck in your bubble and can do only so much. Most games are 90% chat wars + flaming and 10% running under towers and inting.

This was a promising game at its core but personal experience model will never appeal to gamers.

HotS was never meant to be a competitive moba, despite the lies on the website. It was meant to sell skins. And they failed at that too because they forgot to make the game good.

For being a ‘gamer’ for 25+ years, you’re not particularly knowledgable about them :confused:

Cool, it’s easy to point at something and pretend that is the case because people want their opinion to be validated, and they want to reinforce what they already think.

If people are already interested in a game, they tend to not be interested in changing it. Asking Lol/Dota people isn’t going to change their mind because they’re already invested in that game. Maybe if you try talking to Diablo/WoW people they might have considered a change based on already being Blizzard players… but, the game is already in decline. It has stopped, it’s done, it’s been in maintenance mode for years. Find me a ‘ded’ game topping twitch charts, and then argue back from that.

How pathetic would the genre be if that last 7 days on twitch had HotS as a top spot? Who and what is there even to watch for the interest? Khaldor? CCL?

Established twitch followers either have to follow trending games, or their playerbase watches them for whatever they play, so they don’t fixate on just one game, and instead split their time across several.

Similarly, the capacity for people to watch a game doesn’t mean much on the gameplay itself. Yea, people might rather watch a game they don’t have to pay for because they don’t have to pay for it, or better yet, they can play something else while they ‘watch’.

“Online games” extend beyond just Moba and ‘personal experience’ but it looks like you forgot about that in this.

if the game had active development – then it’d probably have numbers to back that. However, blizz has ‘limited’ resources, and prioritized other venues that do have the ‘top’ numbers you’d find despite all sorts of complaints on how bad those games are.

A game driven by ‘constant content’ not having new stuff shrivels up; it doesn’t take ‘years’ to notice that. That’s part of why there was an excessive serge for devs to try to cash-in on their own ‘moba’, and then switch over to team-shooters, and be late to that trend, followed by the other trend followers for the other genres that hit Steam in recent years.

It’s almost like some sort of ‘organized game’ benefits from having ‘organization’ for it, and without it, it doesn’t do as well. Amazing insight there /s

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On the flipside, having 6k posts on the forums and your posts are still pointless whinging nonsense.

Game was in decline from the beginning but it hit a historical low because simply, teamwide experience doesn’t create “wow I carried this game I feel good” moments that pull gamers into them. It never created the impact that dota/LoL created when they were released because of teamwide experience and the lack of personal potential.
Oh and gamers play a lot of games - at least give them a go. Most of the people I added to my list from hots are now playing valorant or LoL and I can see that on my discord channel so your point makes absolutely no sense.

I just dropped that link as one small bit of a proof. Other proofs? 900 seconds que in ranked at 2 am. I played the game long enough to see how much the playerbase has dwindled.
If you want to deny it, be my guest. I can just bring up a billion other charts with similar results but I won’t waste more time into it.

I just had to state the obvious before I leave this game. Not hoping for it, but just in case Microsoft / activision blizzord staff might want to know why their game can’t draw any audience.


Also wanted to point this out:

Did the game die because they stopped active development or did they stop development because the game never made a good impact and was not profitable at all?
That is a chicken egg question but I will tell you that HotS never did an amazing job. Its initial release even was subpar compared to other big mobas.
People just don’t want to play with teamwide experience and no personal development system.

But it obviously got worse after the development ended, HGC got cancelled etc.

Given that most people don’t know it exists, they can’t want to play it.

They do actually. Have been for a while.

True, that’s why most team based games are blamefests.

The game is no longer supported, and isn’t advertized, so of course it won’t be in the top 10.

That is 100% COMPLETELY incorrect.

The very reason HotS failed is precicely because they tried to force competitive on it.

Skins are free?, you get tons of them by just playing. HotS is the easiest game to get skins that I know of. Play LoL and see how long it takes to get the same amount of skins you get in HotS in 3 weeks.

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What the heck is this list your citing?
2 of these games aren’t even mobas. valorant doesnt have the coveted item shop and arguably neither does pokemon unite. league of legends is on this list twice. 4 times if you count the league clones.

bro, just go play league lol

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Aha, so this is how to troll on forums 101.

I’m on the way to league, have fun in your dead game with 15 people online :smiley:

hope league does it for ya

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Dude, I had more than fifteen people on my friends list alone playing HotS tonight, and I don’t even have the friends list capped in bnet.

Of course it’s not as high on the list for streamers. It hasn’t had new content in years. New content is where views come from, that’s all it is. People don’t stream it as much because most people stream to get viewers. It’s a pretty straightforward concept. You can take a game that won multiple GOTY awards and is unequivocally top tier gaming, and five years later nobody outside of loyal viewers are going to be watching you stream it.

League is a million times more toxic of a game and I’m sorry your friends are all incapable of teamwork and need the validation of being the highest level to feel good about themselves. It’s pretty obvious you only cater to confirmation bias, though, so I’ll just tell you to have a good day, sir. :slight_smile:

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It is more toxic than HotS. I play and have played both games.

But it’s not because 1 bad player ruins things like in HotS.

It’s because there are so many mediocre and below mediocre players in LoL trying to act like they are Challenger rank players temporarily inconvenienced by a middle rank.

They get really ragey and upset when they get outsmarted by opponents who are actually higher in skill than their rank suggests, and because they can’t process being mediocre, they lash out at their teammates and start the blame game.

HotS is way, way more casual. I prefer it that way. It’s a team brawler with very limited solo carry mechanisms for people who aren’t Grand Master or at least Master in skill level, and it’s good that way.

No, this game never had a chance of competitively challenging Dota 2 or LoL. But it had a good tournament run for a few years with an acceptable prize pool until Blizzard shut down the global championship.

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Play single player competitive games then?

Hots is a team game and you should be playing it with a team, not randos in a solo queue if you want to play seriously.

While I can blame players all day for their laziness, inability, and unwillingness to be social enough to actively work with other to form teams, Blizzard themselves aren’t without their share of it. Hots should have been developed from the ground up to facilitate team self organization. But they chose not to because they thought they could ride the solo queue trend that infested gaming in the 2010s.

I expected more from the company, to this day, creates a game that requires the active participation of groups of 20 players to engage with gameplay at the highest level. But not HotS, where most of its players can barely be expected to not throw a tantrum let alone organize with 4 other players to have fun.

:joy:

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Critical thinking is not your strongest ability, troll.

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Here’s the thing: you didn’t post ‘proof’.

You made some ‘unfalsifiable’ claims – we don’t have alternative timelines to see the game being ‘successful’ to thus find the key factor that makes or breaks it – so you have convinced yourself that since people can’t disprove the claim, you have thus posted some sort of ‘truth’. And you lack the awareness to have thought that out.

If some thing agrees with that ‘truth’, it must be ‘proof’ in your attempts to validate your opinion.

"Unfalsifiable claims’ have the paradox of seemingly like they’re ‘strong’, when they’re actually not. The inability to disprove something doesn’t mean you can actually ‘prove’ it, so posts find the most ‘obvious’ thing the can, and pretend it is ‘proof’.

It’s very telling that your response to my decry of your post is to fixate on the post count and assume I write bunch of ‘whinging’ instead of jokes, poems, guides, or a myriad of other things that take time and effort to process that you aren’t wiling to put in. You are impressed by ‘numbers’ when they suit you, but otherwise disregard them and find ignorance more empowering than otherwise.

And this post is already too long for you, so it’s another ‘number’ that indicate your inability to process ‘proof’.

You’ve indicated you aren’t into actually being informed, skilled, or experienced, but you like to pretend that you do, hence the claim on the ‘years’, or the fixation on ‘carrying’. ‘Carry’ was a fan fantasy that doesn’t hold up as well as people assert, and more experienced players will denounce it, or make a better distinction on the carry/team dynamic to try to offset the scrubs that claim they can do it.

Afterall, if people knew a thing about ‘numbers’, they’d realize that the majority of players can’t carry in lol/dota, even if they convince themselves they can with wonderful Dunning/Kruger. Should that realization kick in, then they wouldn’t put as many numbers into the game to support the fantasy of other people to ‘carry’ them.

Btw, if your check on the ‘playerbase’ is to find the lowest played mode at the lowest played time, then you’re not interested in ‘proof’, you’re looking for confirmation bias.

That’s why you’re around here to ‘state the obvious’ on beating a dead horse: small and simple things are already too much for you, so it has to be “obvious” for you to even notice, and then pretend you’ve given some sort of valuable feedback that they higherups ‘need’ to get from a ‘valued’ player, like yourself.

Microsoft isn’t interested in an uninformed casual opinion that has already been stated for years on end. One of the biggest issues you haven’t even considered is that HotS wasn’t unprofitable, it simply wasn’t enough of a cashcow to justify the effort to sustain it compared to putting that same personal on a different IP.

Why make a ‘Starcraft’ game when a sparkly unicorn in WoW will pull in more numbers?

Part of why blizzard was ‘slow’ on getting to the moba market is they weren’t planning to get involved in the first place: it takes a lost of effort to put in the numbers, so ‘at most’ the game was going to be a map mode. Suits got on the hype train for following the bandwagon to throw a bunch a people at something it wasn’t designed to have, and when the quick return wasn’t as high as diablo sales or WoW skins, they pulled out and pulled out hard.

HoTS decline was a matter of suits with bad expectations through a rut of cost-cutting, and less so some of the numbers people try to anachronistically attach to it because they don’t actually know any better, but they like to think they do. People don’t know the difference between ‘speculation’ and ‘value’ (investment)

Yea, the game has issues and a myriad of things could be what/if instead of the one thing you found ‘obvious’ with you lack of observation skills, experienced, or interest. However, most of the issues of live-service models tend to come from needing to be able to sustain the live service, or rather, reduce costs after initial launch, but maximize profits. That’s part of why gaming new is rife with games that try to step into the market and quickly pull out if they don’t get their expected surge and shut down their game.

If you actually want more information on the trend-follow game craze for the past few years (moba trends, team shooter trends, etc etc) then I can post links to video essayists that present it in a more palatable form than bland words and long-text, but I don’t that’s the case otherwise you wouldn’t be around here trying to sing your own praise with shoddy claims and bad ‘proof’ and deluding yourself into the value of such effort.

But hey, here I am typing a ‘book’ on a dead forum for a ‘ded game’.

It’s as if they were born yesterday and they have the innocence of a child hoping everything and everyone are amazing rainbow marshmallows.

Competitive Play Enters the Chat
“Welcome to the cesspool bi…!”
Innocence shattered

Yup, because the ego and self-reliance are prominent and those who do play those games aren’t interested in team play, but want to play in team games to show off how big their epeens are…

Game is a bit old now, and support has stopped years ago. If you don’t water the plants, they won’t grow…

This is precisely why they went the other way. Instead of another DOTA clone, they did something else that would cater to a different kind of player. They also fought for their character clones against DOTA in a lawsuit.

Is it though? You should’ve seen it coming, more than a decade ago…

Yup, it’s nice to have different flavors of a genre. A point you missed.

I found the same experience in DOTA and LOL, but worse! Woah!

You made a typo here contradicting yourself. DOTA and LOL are personal experiences since they are single player games in a team setting. In HOTS, you must be a team to be affective, but since lots of players move from DOTA and LOL to HOTS, don’t know or like to be helpful to others. The ego trip continues and they get salty they can’t carry and have the biggest epeen in the game.

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This citation is only about viewed and created hours on twitch. It’s all about streaming.
Like, look at your own numbers and see the massive differences in League and Dota vs. other names which I don’t. It doesn’t really have much to do with players, and even if it did, I expect HoTs to be outside the top ten because it has basically no support at this point.

Except for the players, and it still is a decent game as is.

Seriously, Brawl Stars is a better quality game? C’mon.

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Google The Sunk Cost Fallacy.
While I am sure your vast network has great opinion, good discussions and constantly talking about HOTS. IMO the primary reason is Sunk Cost Fallacy.
Even if they don’t realise it. Probably the same reason a lot of us prefer over LOL.

And why are you directing this at Blizz? They don’t check/respond on these forums and if you want to whine directly to them, I suggest Reddit :slight_smile:


The core gameplay is the team mechanic… essentially you want this to be LOL/DOTA but with Blizz IP… Do I really need to say more?

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I know I’m not your target Mr Hit Man but yeah link me some please, I love a good video essay :slight_smile:

They want to play a team game but want his team to boost him up so he in endgame dont need them.

At this point why not just play a singleplayer game if all they care about is himself ?

Problem is most people already adabted the LOL/DOTA way of playing so trying to make a game like HOTS that goes away from that was already a bad move. Tho it was a great idea to do it its just there are not many people who enjoy being hostage with a bad team. Most people are used to play games where they are able to do stuff alone and rely less on his team aka the ego thing you mention.

You wont see random players adabting to team play unless they have been playing together for years like in sports. And even in sport you always have that one player that are better than the others that want to feel relevant.

Mobas are not that much of a team game anymore when you always see the game trying to push out stuff that makes individual players stronger to the point his team becomes irellevant. His team just becomes a tool for him to use to win the game. When the game is over he could care less about them.

Hots atleast tried to make everyone relevant with its forced teamplay and no items to boost heroes up to become stronger. But in the end people only care about themself so thats one of the reasons why Hots did not become that big. Random players are just bad at playing as a team and not as an individual.

Its like the Avengers movie where they tried to force alot of egoes to work together to save the planet. It ended up badly.

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“Video Game Marketing Devolved”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewp9QrZHLLs

“How Executives Get Rich Making Poor Decisions”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuIitYcoSiE

“How Corpos ruin games”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZffFoQekcc

“… (Why Matchmaking Always Sucks)”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdYM1FTFgTE&t=2s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsgfjLkVsAE
“Escape from Tarkov’s DLC Bait and Switch” (analogy implied to SMITE on monetization switches)

Those are just bits from TheOtherFrost – whose more a ‘journalist’ than ‘essayist’, but it’s stuff I had in mind in some of my recent posts and anything beyond a certain length online becomes an ‘essay’ or ‘book’ or whatever is intended as a derogatory term for something that shouldn’t be.

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