My suggestions to balance Orphia

General Discussion
1

After many weeks of playing Orphia, I finally reached my conclusions to balance her. I believe her base numbers are good but she had some problematic talents.

Ancestral Strength is considered an OP talent but, to be honest, is the only good talent at level 1 right now because it grants extra damage and slows while En Pointe is damage just for Q and Growing Nightmare suffers from the same illness and in order to increase the slows you need to hit 3 heroes wich is just too hard to compete with ol’ reliable Ancestral Strength.
Now, without Ancestral Strength, Orphia just sucks and is not the fault of the talent, the other 2 talents need to be buffed.
Here, my suggestions are:

  • En Pointe: now grants an extra charge of Overflowing Chaos when hits with the tip.
  • Growing Nightmare: the base bonus now includes the increase in the slow amount of the eruption and the new bonus after hitting 3 heroes, the eruption stuns each hero caught by 0.5 secs.

En Pointe in theory is good but it just doesn’t fit with Abyssal Symbiosis later at 13, meaning Orphia lack enough charges of Overflowing Chaos, and with this change that wouldn’t be an issue anymore.
Now for Growing Nightmare, the talent feels like an actual talent when you complete the quest, but only after you complete it, meaning the talent needs a buff for both, base and complete. I thought in to remove the quest but the quest is just too fun to complete so I think the new reward makes the talent scarier when completed, which should be rare but rewarding when you manage to complete it.

At level 4 all talents feel good but since I’m thinking in nerf Insatiable, a small buff for Backbiter would be great a small buff to Allegrissimo would be well welcomed in order to make it more relevant.

  • Backbiter: now grants 10% of speed and armor for 1.5 seconds after Chomp hits an enemy hero.
  • Allegrissimo: the tip now deals 30% more damage to non-heroic enemies.

Backbiter is only useful with Insatiable and in order to make it more attractive, I just thought in adding more power to the talent. The talent is still good with Insatiable but now is also more versatile when you need more defensive options.
The small buff for Allegrissimo is just to add some extra power to Q build, which lacks good PvE.

Now is time to nerf that broken talent called Insatiable and also make a complete overhaul to Ravenous Hunger.

  • Insatiable: increase Cd from 1.5 seconds to 2.5 seconds.
  • Ravenous Hunger: A whole new effect to the talent. The talent is now a quest talent similar to Varian’s High King’s Quest. The talent now has 3 different quests and when you complete all of them it increases Chomps power and those quests are:
    1-Gather 15 Regeneration Globes.
    2-Kill 20 minions with Chomp.
    3-Kill 1 hero.
    After complete, all quest the power of Chomp is increased by 40%, and the Cooldown is reduced in 4 seconds for a total of 6 seconds.

Currently, if you don’t pick Insatiable, Orphia becomes an ok hero, nothing really special, not bad but not better than other mages, that’s why I think a solid nerf to this talent is needed and I think an extra second is fair enough to don’t kill the talent.
The current Ravenous Hunger is just plain bad in both effect and functionality. Orphia is not super good at wave clearing and that talent encourages Orphia players to stay on the lane. The new effect requires Orphia to stay in the lane just for a couple of waves and not the entire game while also now can compete with Insatiable.

These were the most complicated tiers and hopefully, this would help the rest of the talent tree but some talents need some buffs and nerfs like:

  • Eternal Feast: reduce the time it takes the heroic to start from 1.5 seconds to 0.75 seconds. The first attack does 50% more damage.
  • Abyssal Symbiosis: Chomp no longer increases Overflowing Chaos to the maximum and now just grants and extra charge of Overflowing Chaos. increase the shield from 170 to 195.
  • Invasive Miasma: The time of the activation is reduced from 2 seconds to 0.5 seconds. The healing amount is increased from 182 to 200 as well as the damage that is increased from 150 to 180.
  • Bond of Anguish: the percentage damage is increased from 3% to 4% and the healing from 50% to 70%.
  • Lurking Terror: Now the Chomp cast with the key 1 has 30% more area, with an area similar to D’va’s W.
  • Eldritch Conduit reduce the amount of each Overflowing Chaos consumed from 3% to 2% for a maximum of 2% and the bonus after reaching the maximum bonus is decreased from 30% to 20%.
  • Final Toccata Now has the passive effect of increase Shadow Waltz damage in 15% that increases to 30% when the effect of Final Toccata is active.

Well, these were my ideas. Share your opinion in the comments and now enjoy a cute drawing of Orphia.

3 Likes
2

It was 2 seconds before the buffs, so I think a return to that would be fine. 2.5 seems a bit much.

4 Likes
3

Orphia? Maye Orphea?

1 Like
4

Really cool ideas! The picture at the end weirds me out for some reason

5

I have little clue about Orphea talents as I dont really like her and have only played her in ARAM and vs her the rest of the time…

But this change

seems very good, because often the first strike never lands so Eternal feast is often either 0 value… or completely broken on a merc capture or with large AoE CC like Diablo or Thrall ult. Id suggest limiting the follow up damage a bit to compensate though. It is a fire and forget ability afterall. (Stukov can also contest mercs very well with perma silence, but at least can be interrupted.)

This seems quite broken though. Instant damage + heal in a large area. 2s delay allows counterplay, 0.5s is basically human reaction time. No way to avoid it.

1 Like
6

my thoughs exactly, from 2 seconds, the most u can do is 1.5,
i think vn 1 second wil b little. coz the damage n heal is gud, specially if orphea is playing agressive q build n diving in between thm

7

Orphia? Maye Orphea?

The evil twin sister of Quira, Arthus and Silvaneous :smiling_imp:

3 Likes
8

Before buffs things were too different. 0.5 seconds won’t be too different.

No.

The current talent is ridiculous bad and can’t compete with the other options. It still has a higher CD than the other optios as well as be a more risky option.

Don’t forget Murko.

9

I know how to balance her, get rid of her and all the other “nexus originals” and give us more heroes that are already established.

10

Abilities

  • Shadow Waltz
    • Reduce baseline Shadow Waltz damage from 165 to 160
    • Ability tipper zone size increased by 25% for the appropriate talents
      • En Pointe
      • Allegrisimo
  • Dread
    • Wave Slow potency reduced from 25% to 10%
    • Eruption Slow potency reduced from 25% to 20%
  • Eternal Feast
    • Damage reduced from 210 to 200
    • Start delay reduced from 1.5 seconds to 1.25 seconds
    • Repeat delay reduced from 1 seconds to 0.8 seconds

Talents

Level 1

  • Ancestral Strength
    • The number bonuses aren’t the reasons why this talent dictates Orphea’s current playstyle, it’s because it synergizes with key talents that would otherwise be trash
    • Don’t forget that this talent provides a consistent damage boost to all abilities, compared to the other talents that offer a damage boost to only one ability
    • Nerfing this talent numbers wise isn’t the correct solution
    • The only solution is to rework this talent’s functionality completely
      • We arrive at the same problem that Raynor had with Ace in the Hole and Unstable Compound, which you couldn’t pick either talent without picking the other because of how strongly they synergized and beefed up an otherwise balanced hero
  • En Pointe
    • Increase its damage bonus from 90% to 100%
  • Growing Nightmare receives new functionality…
    • Increase the cast speed of Dread by 15%
    • /!\ Quest: Hitting 2 Heroes with a single cast of Dread’s eruption 4 times.
    • /!\ Reward: Double the Slowing potency of Dread’s wave and Eruption
      • (10/20% to 20/40%)

Level 4

  • Backbiter
    • No longer automatically pushes you back
    • Dash distance reduced by 25%
    • Dash speed reduced by 25%
    • Additional functionality: Your next movement command causes you to dash in the direction you order
  • Allegrisimo
    • Additional functionality: Reduce the Mana cost of Shadow Waltz to 25
    • Additional functionality: Reduce the cooldown of Shadow Waltz to 4 seconds
    • Additional functionality: Reduce the amount of Mana restored when hitting an enemy Hero to 25
      • These changes will help promote Q build while alleviating the stress if missing
  • Chaotic Assault bonus damage reduced from 75% to 60%

Level 7

  • Insatiable
    • I’m not really sure if a nerf is needed or not. The other choices just don’t seem appealing to use with Orphea in 2020
    • If a nerf were to come to this talent, the limit must be to 1.75 seconds
      • Anything over that will make this talent weak and unusable
  • Ravenous Hunger
    • I like the questing and infinite damage potential this talent provides, the only thing I dislike is how this talent limits the situations where you can use Chomp to last hitting (heroes mainly). To get this talent stacked enough to where it is worth picking over the other talents, you must last hit heroes consistently. Did I forget to mention that there’s no time frame where quest progress still counts if you don’t last hit the hero with Chomp? Last hitting with a slow, short ranged ability is hard on its own.
    • You can now get quest credit if the Hero dies within 1.5 seconds of Chomp damage
      • This change alone will make the talent much more friendly
  • Mind Devourer receives adjusted functionality…
    • Reward: After hitting 15 Heroes, hitting an enemy Hero with Dread’s
      eruption reduces its cooldown by 4 seconds and refunds 25 Mana.
      Reward: After hitting 30 Heroes, these bonuses are doubled.

Level 13

  • Determination bonus Physical damage increased from 15% to 20%
  • Abyssal Symbiosis is just fine in my opinion
    • Virtually had a 0% pickrate before the shield functionality was added on
      • The added shield assists W build’s performance since Orphea will be subject to close range threats more than ever

Level 16

  • Bond of Anguish bonus damage increased from 3% to 4%
    • Indirectly increases amount of healing from landing Q
      • Before:
        • Azmodan has 4619 health at Level 16
        • 3% of 4619 = ~139
        • Half of ~139 = 69
        • Orphea has 2859 health at Level 16
        • Healed for ~2.4% health
      • After:
        • Azmodan has 4619 health at Level 16
        • 4% of 4619 = ~185
        • Half of ~185 = ~92
        • Orphea has 2859 health at Level 16
        • Healed for ~3.2% health
          • Of course all of this will vary depending on the hero you victimize

Level 20

  • Final Toccata receives adjusted functionality…
    • OLD: Activate to instantly reset the cooldown of Shadow Waltz. For the next 6 seconds, dashing with Shadow Waltz resets its cooldown.
      • If you miss one Q, this talent becomes trash tier
    • NEW: For 6 seconds, Shadow Waltz does not have a cooldown and Mana cost
11

At least Qhira isn’t the only hero that Gishki can’t spell properly

That said Other then agreeing with Pesky what you suggest makes sense, I’m no expert on Orphea far from it but it’s worth while. To consider :shrug:

12

I’m like 99% sure it’s like this already.

1 Like
13

If it doesn’t say explicitly, then it’s not in the game.

14

It is like this though. Regardless of what the talent tooltip says. Unless my quest dings are liars!

1 Like
15

She will always be either overtuned or useless, dependant on damage scaling. Simple explanation for this is how all three of her basic abilities (and the ult as a bonus) are capable of hitting more than one target. Few heroes have the same capability but without the luxury of being ranged.

Could even try limiting her chaos generation from per target hit to only one for each ability cast and rebalance from that point onward.

16

Wow! This comment is just as intelligent as the one trying to correct the spelling of one word by misspelling a different one just before it.

Just to throw this out there, a lot of the tooltips are outdated. A LOT of the times, there are important details that are omitted from the text and assume the player would already know the super secret things.

1 Like
17

Do you know the brothers Henji and Ganzo?

2 Likes
18

I’ll not be so sure about your suggestions since you don’t know some basic stuff like how that talent works, just as Pesky said, dings doesn’t lie.

2 Likes
19

People pick Ravenous Hunger for dem dings :smirk: