Muradin talents + abilities guide (done)

General Discussion
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Q If you need to reply on sledgehammer to stack dont pick Muradin. Its not worth it
You need to search for angle to reliable hit your Q’s. when someone approaches that angle. At one point it will become muscle memory and stacking becomes easy

On the early game laning face if your forced to lane because your team doesnt. Seek out the enemy melee rather then the ranged for better stacking
My quest is usually done in 6min

W just spam this unless you pick the heal on 13

E you can use it to escape or engage. Best if you use it early game to escape untill you have avatar. Then go aggressive all you want

Trait /second wind
If a healer is healing you. Ping your trait, dont waist their mana
Dont use fountains before the trait kicks in

Tier 1
Perfect storm only when you have another hero who can take damage for you

Dwarf block (E)
Jump on the same spot before engaging so you have your 4 stacks of block at the beginning of the fight. Dont be afraid to jump into the fight as well. If your only plan to use E to escape this talent is not for you
If you plan to invade a lot, this talent is for you

Third wind
Very useful on maps where fights can last long like BoE hanamura or cursed hollow.

Tier 2
Sledgehammer (edit(
it proves some nice pve , but thats not why you draft muradin. Your job is to create space for the heroes who can do waveclear. If you are bad at landing Q’s at the right time pick slegehammer

Reverberation
Must picks on most maps for various reasons
It only has benifieds and you dont need to think before using it

Thunder burn
Great for zoning and if you go for healing static. But reverberation is better.

Tier 3
You trust your team > heavy impact
You dont trust them> give them the axe
Enemy has channels > skullcracker

With skullcracker the best thing you can do is hit 2 aa’s and as soon the target does their channel ability/spin to win/ drink brew. You do your 3rd hit. Best sonya counter EU :grin:

Tier 4
Pick avatar 90% of the time. Use it when your committed to a fight. Dont use it at full health because you might scare of the enemys

Haymacker
Its good when the enemy has a heavy dive team or a stimdroned target. You can use it offensive and defensive, but taking dwarven toss on 16 is kinda a must

Tier 5
Bronzebeard is a must pick
The other talents are nice but why do you pick muradin? To be a tank, bronzebeard overrules the others, I know they have potential but if you are low all you need to do is stand in the middle of a minion wave and your full health
You do great dmg, your wave and camp clear increases and your dmg will add up

Tier 6

Dwarven toss if you face a lot of inmobile targets so you can manouvere them or pick heavy toss / haymacker

Imposing presence if your healing is good but you lack team kill potential

Stoneform is they have good damage and you picked avatar. Just use avatar before using stoneform. This is the most reliable if you dont know what to do

Tier 7

Unstopable force if yourteam isnt good enough to follow up on a rewind stun

Grandslam is bad, rewind is better, it helps providing kills faster

Hardened shield
If you are doing a lot of camp invades/face a wombo combo

Rewind
If your good at landing Q’s and you know your team can follow up with damage or CC.
Also helps if you face a squichy who doesnt have an escape

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You accidentally pressed “post”?

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If you’d like, I’d be happy to go over the post after you finish, or whenever you feel, to sharpen up, nix typos and other such small errors.

I’ve always loved Muradin, but recently I haven’t kept up with changes, so I’m already happy to see this on the forums.

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In all honesty I disagree with almost everything in this guide which makes me think you made this as simply troll post. You seem to approach Muradin as a random tank to tank rather than playing his strengths compared to other tanks.

Level 1: Always Perfect storm. It’s just infinite stacking to help extra burst a target down. Very strong synergy with sledge hammer.
Third wind helps tad on laning but you don’t get breathers like that in TF to get value from it and your baseline is more than enough for laning phase.
Dwarf block is flat out bad. It’s extra 45 phys armor on jump for 4 attacks. Only reason I can see why you would advocate this is you go Heavy impact at 7 and likely dwarf launch at 16 to better survive when you jump for very risky Haymakers(which again I would strongly advice against). Normally you do not want to just jump in there as it marks you as free kill, hence this talent teaches you bad habits.

Level 4: Sledge hammer practically always. It helps your team jungle much faster(actually turns you into one of fastest junglers with level 1 and baseline quest), let’s you clear enemy mercs, burn objectives and just extra help when pushing.
If we talk about super coordinated high level games thunderburn is an option when combined with healing static at 13. It will give you better survival than Bronzebeards rage short term vs burst.
Reverb is the only option I would advocate to never pick. Extra 20% AS slow is not worth losing either of the alternatives. Basically again would only go to full haymaker E build to jump in there, get high value target out and hope for the best.

Level 7: Standard talent is Give 'em the Axe. It gives you most damage which is one of the main reasons to pick Mura over other tanks.
Skullcracker is my personal favorite. It’s about 60-100 damage less over 3 attacks compared to Give 'em the Axe, but to me 0,25s stun is easily worth it. It also works on PvE targets.
Heavy Impact is for playmaker builds to get more reliable Q+R.

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I did not know that about skullcracker. Very cool.

I like reverb. Don’t forget, it also increases the debuff duration. It works out, reverb’s debuff will mitigate more of the enemy’s damage than getting hit twice with thunderburn. Pretty cool given that the second thunderburn doesnt always land. I would only pick thunderburn if i plan to pick healing static.

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Yes

No I respect muradin as a tank. Im not playing him as a damage.
If you call my post a troll post go write your own guide, its disrespectful and the first thing your putting down is not even true

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When i first read this thread i was like what am i playing muradin wrong? Ive had decent success with him both as a bruiser and a maintank. Then i saw noir’s post which is basically how i play muradin. When i see muradins picking up third wind/w talents/skullcracked they tend to be new muradin players.

Whats your muradin winrate and how often do you play muradin? Is this guide for regular players or masters? I do respect your advice and appreciate this guide, but it goes against alot of my muradin experience.

Here are my main issues

1: perfect storm is a great talent. It gives you up to 125-200 extra damage per hammer target and if you get cdr, land 4-5 hammers in a fight, thats 500-1000 extra damage. Muradin diving backline lategame is scarier than a butcher change my mind

2sledgehammer: bofe, towers of doom, infernal shrines, and garden of terror are just a few examples where you’d want as much pve as you possibly can. I also just think that getting quest done asap is important. So even if you’re a fantastic muradin getting it 3-4 q’s earlier is good.

3 not a fan of block talent. Maybe in a few niche situations but when i play muradin and when i play anubarak engaging with e = focused and killed: even in plat.

Anyways checked higher level muradin stats for last few patches (since he hasn’t been touched and we want to see thousands of games not a few hundred)

Perfect storm has better pickrate and winrate than others, not particularly close. All of his level 4’s are viable and have pretty equal pickrates. Think any can be justified depending on maps as you said or playstyle.

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You can ping your trait?
I hate when they waste their mana.

I generally agree with what you’ve said so far.
Though I do think you can intentionally draft with Sledgehammer in mind. I do still usually go Reverb in a typical draft.

That’s only going to really help on Infernal if you lose the objective.
And in that case you’d better have drafted with the intent of surrendering the objective and super defending against it.
You don’t really want to pick him there with the intent of going to the objective, because the objective monsters are going to be blocking your Q all day.

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why are you playing a “tank” that becomes totally worthless the moment you miss a Q

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Worthless is such a strong word for a safe tank, you can always peel with him, use W and block skillshots by just existing.

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What your saying is very questionable and not good in practice

Sledghammer all of the time???
Only pick perfect storm???

?

Do you even play mura

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I take Reverb as a softer version of a blind in case they have powerful autoattackers.

I don’t see why it’s a never pick.

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ive finished it
I need to fix a lot of typos but english is my 3rd language. Maybe also do a better formatting

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Thanks for the tips on Q stacking. The angle is important.

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That’s alright! English is my first language and used to be my major in university, back when I had potential and aspirations. I’d be glad to give it a once over for some sharpening up if you like, though you do handle English quite well.

I wish Anglophones were as conscious of the language as those for whom it’s a second or third language.

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Not sure why people are bickering over some small stuff here. It’s clearly QM guide to Muradin made to help him do most tanking where you have no idea on map or comps. It’s not made for drafting where you know what you face to bring most of the hero over other tanks. Just because what OP says is against how high level tank players build Mura and guides tell to build him you need to realize those are aimed at drafting environment to make most of the hero. They are not made to QM environment like this one. It’s nice that people make guides for different environments rather than all being just for high level draft play where you try to maximize everything out of hero. Try to realize that QM is the most popular mode in HoTS.

There was math done it at reddit one point or maybe it was math of the storm. It would need to be 65 or 75% AS slow to make it worthwhile over thunder burn or give it bigger slow. Technically this talent got even worse since baseline was buffed from 25% to 30% reduction. Reason why guides and high level players don’t pick it is two fold.
First is the Q synergy as was explained earlier which are part of standard build now. Second is if you want CC, Thunder burn gives same damage reduction over 5 seconds instead of period of 3,5s + it slows and deals more damage. Level 7 executioner gets full uptime from it which is what Mura normally picks in high level games. At 13 you can synergize it with healing static which used to be the go-to talent there for long time. Nowadays like OP suggests too burning rage is what’s the standard as it gives more healing over time + damages enemies. Even in master you rarely get such good coordination that you would need healing statics better burst healing.

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Meanwhile jayPL best muradin tank worldwise always picked the new sledgehammer in competitive…

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Like I said in my earlier post you shouldn’t make such comparisons. It’s clearly guide meant for QM environment where you just try to be best tank rather than to be the best or most valuable Muradin. When you read guide by some GM or pro the guide is generally aimed for making most of Mura or whatever hero is in question. With those guides you don’t pick Mura if you think you need the Reverb for example. You pick another hero that is optimal now. Just like you pick the S-tier heroes and generalists first because they will work in any situation so you always get value from them. Those heroes you won’t need to build sub-optimally so you get that expected value from them.

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It says talents + abilities, not how to draft against everything, but feel free to make it hotshot. Sledgehammer is a streamer talent for quicker stats so they can show the hero can do camps and such, but why do it when you have a mage who can do it better?

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Id argue muradin with sledgehammer + completed quest + stacks can pve MUCH faster than most mages. He can also do it safer. Certainly mephisto, guldan, orphea.

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