Heroes Profile win rate 58% in QM, 53% In storm.
I think we are just burned out on making topics about it, its the same thing for almost every new hero.
Yes a new hero comes out, yes they are OP, shock shock.
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Yeah, there were very few exceptions though.
For example, I remember when Cassia came out (not her recent rework, but her original release), there were like two threads praising her as a very rare case of a balanced release, based on the fact that there were a bunch of “Cassia OP” threads, but also a bunch of “Cassia UP” threads.
That was one of those times that I felt being a dev seems to be a really thankless job.
Zarya was also a weird case. IIRC she was next to useless on PTR and on launch, and then they mega-buffed her with a balance patch that hit less than 24 hours after her release, and then nerfed her to a reasonable place a couple of days later.
Some people complained and took it as evidence of “OW favoritism”, claiming that OW was the only franchise for which they would ever give buffs so quick.
I just assumed the patch got delayed for some reason and couldn’t be integrated with the actual release of the Hero.
That, and they’d rather have a hero be too strong on launch than too weak (though I don’t remember if it was a dev explaining this, or a player with some really well-executed speculation)…
In other words, it’s not “OW favoritism”, it’s “OP favoritism” 
I think it is more that given the choice of very weak (zarya) they would rather just push buffs out.
Because if a hero is to weak, they cannot get any data.
I think ideally the developers would want a hero is around the 55-75th percentile in terms of power before players get used to playing against them. As this maximizes data, while not ruining the game because a hero is super OP.
And often times a hero who is “op” or “a bit strong” tends to have their winrate drop a bit over time. So OP at week 1 can end up being balanced at week 3.
45% - 55% is considered balance range.
QM metric is literally excluded and those websites always shows SL games first, and for a good reason too.
Maybe you shouldn’t use QM as base of your argument, shock shock.
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Her damn near 60% win rate disagrees with you.
near 60% winrate at what ranks?
All ranks. Currently 57.7% on hotslogs.
hotslogs is outdated why are you using that actually all of these websites don’t show accurate data due to most of people not uploading their games most of them upload only wins but not losses = it shows that winrate going up
You realized it was relaunched right? is it perfect no, but since bliz doesn’t share numbers with us we have to go off what the community makes. I really only think her trait and avalanche are over tuned.
Its basically gust, with a stun at the end.
Oh and it goes through walls
Her base kit, dmg, talents are fine.
Trait just need to not be a get out of jail free card.
Its 2x johanna shield, with a 35% heal, at the cost of being rooted.
It either needs to be less shield, or less heal. Maybe both.
Just because she isn’t flashy don’t assume shes not over tuned.
Shes a tank. tanks aren’t flashy…(well avalanche is…)
wait her damage is fine? as for her trait you can literally break it so fast if you focus it since she’s stationary during it unlike johanna she can move and if she talent around it she gains movement speed and more shields what’s better in your mind? using trait and standing still taking damage or using trait and can walk around / escape?
her ult cannot be compared to gust it even moves towards you slower while gust is instant and bigger radius than avalanche. plus gust can be upgraded to be even more annoying at 20 and avalanche can save you rather than kill you specially in teamfight since you enter inside the snowball and actually immune to any type of damage in fact i played vs mei few hours ago and that ult with no communication can ruin your team’s combos
mei ulted us ruined their KT’s pyro + flamestrike while gust you can just use it against a wall and they’ll be pushed right at the wall not through the wall it’s not like you’ll be landing avalanche all the time getting the enemy team inside your gates lol in QM sure but if we gonna call everything OP based on QM that means all the heroes in the game are OP
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Lets go ahead and push that comparison further.
Since i started comparing her to Johanna lets go with that, since they are similar in other respects.
Johanna
HP: 2731
Mana: 500
Q - 118 dmg 60% slow decaying over 2 seconds.
W - 57 dmg aoe that is a minor displacement.
E - 61 dmg 1.5 sec blind.
R (BShield) - 214 dmg 0.75 sec stun on max 3 people.
Trait: 674 shield for 4 sec, unstoppable
Mei
HP: 2783 (1.87% more than Jo)
Mana: 500
Q - 148 dmg 35% slow 1.5 sec blind — 2.43x as much dmg as Jo’s blind, and has a 35% slow, same blind duration
W - 216 dmg (27 every 0.25 for 2 sec), stacking slow up to 35%, 1.5 sec stun + another 75 dmg (Total 291) if it stuns. — Baseline stun, which Jo doesnt have, I’ll come back to this.
E - 110 dmg, 80% slow decaying over 1.5 sec, minor displacement. — Its a movement ability, which Jo doesn’t have, unless were counting Falling Sword, which has a 50 sec CD vs 14 for this.
R (Avalanche) - 220 dmg, Major displacement, 0.5 sec stun per person hit. — Its basically a gust that does damage, goes through walls, and stuns at the end of the path, with an indicator where its going to stop so your team can follow up.
Trait: 1104 shield for 3 sec, unstoppable, 35% HP healed over those 3 sec, can’;t move.
Is this really even a debate on if shes over tuned, i mean really?
Her W is basically a heroic for some other heroes.
Sunder - 1 sec delay 290 dmg 1 sec stun.
Crushing Jaws - 1.25 sec delay 250 dmg 0.5 sec stun.
Unrelenting Strikes - 2.5 sec delay (interruptible) 380 dmg 1.5 sec stun.
Her entire kit is dramatically better than Jo in its current form. People are still learning to use her, which is why shes only at 57.7% win rate. Were she left in this state for say 6 months, she would easily be a 65% win rate hero.
No current tank brings as much CC while being as survivable as she is to the table. All 3 of her basic abilities has a slow plus something else. Baseline stun, baseline displacement, baseline escape/engage.
ETC needs to be careful with his slide or hes going to get blown up. She engages poorly, oh well. Avalanche or Icewall to save yourself, Trait to save yourself, the idea that she isn’t dramatically better than other tanks is laughable.
I never said she was OP, i said she was over tuned. As new heroes almost always are, to make them appealing to purchase.
Joh does, and you’re being disengenous if you try and say that Cryo is anywhere NEAR as good as ironskin.
Cryo decays: as in its going to be going down naturally, killing itself: Iron skin DOESN’T.
Cryo has a 40 second CD: Ironskin has a TWENTY second CD. Half of it (And if you want to bring in crystalize, we can bring in hold your ground to counter that). So Cryo’s number advantage goes right out the window since Iron skin will both be up more AND doesn’t decay. To say nothing of the whole “can still move while unstoppable” which is Kind of a big deal.
Yes, cryo also heals which is a plus side: but that’s literally her only sustain and tankiness, while joh’s got way more options for sustain and mitigation in her talent tree and kit.
You ALSO don’t even list Joh’s W properly: Its a STUN as well. You even state later on with Mei’s W that Joh doesn’t have a stun, so I know its not a typo.“Baseline stun, which jo doesn’t have” WAT.
If you want you can state that condemn’s Stun is lower than Mei’s blizzard, fair enough: EXCEPT that you’re not going to get away from Joh’s stun since she’s moving and unstoppable, while you have to stand in blizzard or move into it to get stunned.
Mei has her advantages, but don’t say that Joh lacks a stun or that mei is tankier than her on false or disengenous info.
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so you technically saying Mei is Better than Jo just because she has a little bit more damage than Jo? are we really talking about tanks dealing damage now? as for blinds Jo is also better in doing that and it’s never about who deals more damage or who has more health than the other.
what CC are you talking about? her W you can walk out of it / her slide just knocks you away and if she uses it to engage you can melt her even if she use her trait you can break it cause she’s right next to you using it she can’t move out right after her trait is broken / gone with the duration
his slide is a stun and he has knock back right after the stun. he has mosh he has stage dive he can pick any of these. Mei has her W which you can walk out of it unless you’re a potato to stand still and get frozen / her slide knock you away she can try to combo with her W to get you frozen can’t succeed if you see where she’s sliding from to move the other way and not get knocked back into the W her ult makes you immune to any damage stuns you at the end 0.5 seconds per hero inside. you can’t get a 5 man avalanche unless they line up perfectly for you = potatoes in general who doesn’t know crap about what are they doing
Mei isn’t better than Jo in anything and she’s also harder to play btw while Jo is easy to play but better than her while she’s harder to play. just like Raynor easy mode and rewarding hero i just played him recently so braindead hero that i can’t believe they didn’t nerf him till this day but actually buffed him… anyways enough Mei talk for me it’s 4AM i’m tired have a good night!
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it has 4.5 million uploads; Heroes Profile has 29 million.
HoTs maps based on 7 day intervals, HP goes by patch versions.
slogs may eventually catch up, but it has a long ways to go to get back to being up to par outside of impulsive tl;dr responses that just want to confirm their expectations instead of actually compare, consider or use stats analysis beyond confirming bias.
Giving how your little comparison goes between Jo and Mei, it doesn’t seem like you’re actually interesting in those sort of details that actually matter.
- base kits aren’t a very good comparison of hero effectiveness; some heroes get boosts that quadruple the effect of something, have divergent utility applications, boosted survivability, and a host of other stuff that you want to neglect on top of your little spat that doesn’t even get base details right.
Flawed comparisons don’t do a good job of making a case so support your argument, it just gives the impression it’s impulsive outcries for arguing confirmation bias.
“oh but her cc is comparably to heroics… on assassin”
yea, heroes roles generally not associated with hard cc tend to not have metrics that compare well to do, that do get hardline, and chain, cc baseline.
While your direct read suggests that people will only get ‘better’ at Mei, considering how stat maps generally filter out lower level heroes, it’s more likely to indicate stat inflations for
- removing some instances where the hero would be losing more than winning
- people that get those levels shortly after a hero releases means they put more time in playing with the hero than others may have played against the hero. So influential cc tropes are more likely to do better against people unfamiliar with the hero than inexperienced players would be at failing to capitalize on her cc.
Basically, the metrics would suggest that those that HotSlogs would do so to intentionally map their efforts, with an intent to play the hero a lot, so it’d be more prone to showing success with them accordingly.
the whole “we have to use what the community makes” tends to only go over if people have the patience to look at influential details, rather than panic of surface fluff.
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not for a hero that just came out a week ago, obviously. standards are different.
You mean for one who’s declining to 50%? Please stop lying
The dingling player base doesn’t know how to play tanks.
We have done this rodeo before, balance batch notes will say something like.
" Developer Comment: We’re happy with how Mei has frozen over the Nexus, she is, however, overperforming, so while we wait for more data, we’re doing a reduction in her Health to bring her more in line."
I mean come on, if you have been around a long time around here, with how well she has come out of the gate, you know this is coming.
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Think it’s more that the game has less and less players