Let’s talk space goat – a Yrel thread

General Discussion
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Note: This thread is long and discusses many Yrel aspects. You have been warned (of the wall of text).

I un-shelved Yrel a few days ago after not having played her for over a year. Let’s just say that my results (in QM) were less than stellar and I need to look further into her. If you could assist me, I’d appreciate that a lot.

Her general playstyle appeals to me. It’s so satisfying smacking people around with a huge crystal on a stick. Her waveclear is exceptional for a tank/bruiser hybrid. I still find it odd to have her labelled as a bruiser, she feels more like a tank, but okay, labels are just labels.

I had a few matches in which I was the only beefy char on our team. I tried to go full def build with extra armor and healing and focus on staying with my backline to push back any divers or other threats. That worked soso, since the hammer knockback can mess with my allies’ skillshots.

In the one or two matches in which we did have a tank so I could go full bruiser, I quite frankly didn’t even exactly know what to do. I supported with E build and tried to do damage to my best capabilities… But the damage simply isn’t there. I didn’t feel like a thread to the enemy (unlike as e.g. Imperius or Dehaka) and they would waltz just past me when my hammer wasn’t up. How do I do damage?

Regarding ults, I almost exclusively go Sacred Ground. Ardent Defender to me is bad design in its purest and coupled with 120 sec cd makes it almost unusable. Sacred Ground is available for every significant fight and almost all objectives have a spot where I can stay and be annoying. The fact the cd can be up while the original is still running just makes it too good.

Regarding talents:

I don’t get the feeling her talents synergize very well. Many feel more or less independent of each other. On one hand, it’s a good thing that you can always choose what is the best for the situation, on the other hand you don’t get stacking bonuses. Yes, I know there is the E build, but that’s pretty much it. Let me go through some talents, starting with level 13:

Repentance (increased slow and slow duration on E) is a talent that I see little use for, except in a dedicated E build. Velen’s Chosen sounds good on paper and might go well with her Holy Avenger on 7 (constant CDR for E), but other than that, I don’t see it that useful. I know it also affects Yrel’s healing, but except for her level 1 and 4 talents, there is no real healing option. Her damage output isn’t that impressive that 30 % increase would be notably strong… All in all, I find her tier 13 incredibly lackluster and for me, it’s usually a choice of choosing the least bad talent. That said, I took Aldor Peacekeeper for the most part.

Okay, level 1 talents: Maraad’s Insight (heals on AA) lost its appeal to me. At least currently, whenever I feel I need extra heal during the fight, I will take Light of Karabor (which also seems to have a higher winrate). Anyway, I actually prefer Dauntless whenever I got a competent healer, since it provides massive bonus to survivability. Anything I am missing here?

Level 4 talents I find solid so far. All of them offer useful benefits for the team. Gift of the Naaru works with her level 16 talent, so I usually take them in tandem.

Level 7 is a good one as well. While I do not see the point of Samaara’s Light, the rest offer specific advantages in their niche. I find myself more and more choosing Righteous Momentum for the mobility while protecting the backline. Also, great chasing potential. All in all, a good tier.

16 I need some hints. Divine Favor (trait reduction) is a never-bad choice, but what about the others? In case I wanted to do damage, I would go Holy Wrath for the cleave. When does Templar’s Verdict work? I am afraid to knock the enemies away and therefore waste the armor debuff.

At 20, the upgrade for Sacred ground looks okay on paper, but I found Seraphim invaluable, especially with the current cc running rampant. Bubble Hearth looks pretty troll-y to me, though I could see some use in a fully coordinated group to get out of a losing fight while your team runs back. Even then, with Seraphim you might not even have lost that fight. I don’t think BH is bad, but the opportunity cost…

To conclude, I don’t think Yrel is necessarily bad in her current form. I like the charge mechanic, even though it presents somewhat of an Achilles’ heel. What I do think though is that her numbers could use some tuning, especially since she is labelled as a bruiser. So far, I can do somewhat high damage numbers on the scoreboard, but none of that feels impactful. Currently, denying the enemy with displacement and Aldor Peacekeeper at 13 is what I do…

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(This is nitpicky, but it’s A Yrel Thread. You only use ‘an’ when the word starts with a vowel sound, and Yrel starts with a ‘yuh’.)

Yrel’s basic attacks are very powerful. She’s not the best AAer out there, even among Bruisers and Tanks, but it can chunk squishes surprisingly hard. This is often overlooked since many players try to spend downtime charging skills, but that’s not always efficient. You should only begin charging skills after AAing, so you don’t waste damage. She has a low attack speed, so it has naturally great windows.

Aside from that, your main damaging tool is not Righteous Hammer, it’s actually Avenging Wrath. At level 1, a fully charged hammer only deals 125 damage. Avenging Wrath deals 225, applies a 50% slow, and only charges in range. It deals 225 flat. That means using E off cooldown and interchanging AAs is considerable DPS and also lets you chase. This is how she dominates the solo lane.

This is incorrect. Sacred Ground provides a fairly small amount of armor and is easy to counter. It also limits her own ability - because E is so important to her damage and CC combo, you basically give up all of your teamfight contribution. It used to be good on Volskaya when it was bugged and the conveyors moved the zone, but now it has very limited use. I still take it against heavy sustained damage comps on collect or point-hold maps, but that’s it.

Meanwhile, Ardent Defender can be cast without without any animation or interrupt (you can use it while charging!) and it provides instant, uncounterable immunity which lets you pressure the backline with ease. It even heals you up. You should be looking to pop it when damage is already incoming, nullifying enemy skills and providing guaranteed health back. There is a reasson it was nerfed to a 120 second cooldown (it was 100 on launch, and was considered overpowered at a time when Yrel was considered trash).

The only contention is that Sacred Ground’s level 20 is phenomenal and solves a lot of the skill’s weaknesses while Ardent Defender’s is kinda bad, but you shouldn’t plan around 20.

I usually take Repentance because it shores up her kill securing while chasing, since it makes it easier to combo hammer in those situations. This tier is pretty lackluster though, I’ll give you that.

Light of Karabor is definitely the pick of choice. It makes her Q feel a lot more impactful (it’s essentially a filler ability otherwise). Dauntless is strong against heavy AA teams. Maraad’s Insight has been nerfed repeatedly and is total trash now. It was the dominant talent for ages, and only got dethroned after the condition was added. It could use a healing buff now, probably up to like 150.

Templar’s Verdict is good if you’re facing a lot of tanky heroes, while Holy Wrath is good against a lot of squishy heroes. Verdict shreds HP and knocking fatasses into your team is synergistic. Holy Wrath turns your AAs from missiles into nukes, and even has a splash effect. Both synergize perfectly with Yrel’s two prime playstyles. Divine Favor is a talent I don’t think I’ve ever taken; it’s okay but lacks that hard synergy.

Her 20s are all good, aside from Word of Glory (range is too short, you’re usually popping Ardent Defender from a dive). Bubble Hearth is dumb fun, which I take as a second Ardent Defender on occasion, or to counter really nasty displacement. Seraphim is as good as you say.

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I think she is beautiful, not as beautiful as Whitemane but she still looks very pretty.

Click here to see a cute space goat.

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Thanks Murky for the comments, I will do my best to implement your ideas into my gameplay.

Do I understand then that you do not pick Holy Avenger at 7 since you will almost never get the benefit?

So… E → D → W then? casually walking around the slowed enemy?

Which would be… ? Backline dive and own frontline protection?

Fair enough. I’m not native English and for me, her name starts without initial sound - similar as you would say: “An Imperious thread”. I welcome nitpicks, bring them on.

I’m not too much a fan of cutesy-wootsy (fan)art, I like Yrel for her determination and almost-polyanna-like optimism. Sorry…

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Yrel’s primary play styles are disruption and dive. If you try to go protection on her, you’re simply going to have a hard time. This is why she’s labeled as a bruiser. She holds the enemy’s attention by being irritating and doing respectable damage against the unprepared. Despite some of her talents, trying to use her as a protector is rarely ever going to work even if your team has no other front liner. If she is the only front liner on her team, she’s going to “tank” for her team by disrupting the enemy back line. Its kind of hard to deal damage to a team when you’ve got an angry Yrel all up in your grill.

This is the standard combo, yes, and the trick is to land her E in such a way that she hits the ground on the other side of her target so she can immediately D into W and knock her target back into her team before the slow has a chance to wear off. This is especially cataclysmic if the enemy has plenty of high HP front lines and Yrel has also taken Templar’s Verdict at 16. Suddenly the enemy’s tanks/bruisers find themselves with -20 armor, 4% of their health missing, and in the middle of Yrel’s team. Even without Templar’s at 16, this combo is pretty devastating if done correctly. It is similar in nature to Garrosh’s throw+stun combo. And as Murloc mentioned, if the enemy doesn’t have a problematic front line, then Holy Wrath can let you solo most squishy targets by yourself.

The problem with Holy Avenger is that it has to be a fully charged E to get its effect. Since an enemy isn’t likely going to let you channel E right in the middle of a fight without CC’ing you, you’re likely only going to be able to get this effect if you engage with E, get the CDR, then immediately D to use E a second time. It could add up to quite a bit of burst, but generally speaking Divine Stead is just going to be better all the time purely for the instant mount-- it allows more escape options than Holy Avenger ever could.

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I played a few more matches with her and tried to incorporate what you wrote.

First, the hint to always auto attack between casts is huge. I didn’t expect it to make that much of a difference. Love it, especially after 16; I now take the increased aa damage + splash most of the time.

Also, I now almost exclusively take +heal at level 1 and Aldor Peacekeeper at 13. Great synergy and good self sustain. Though I had one match against a Raynor, Hammer, Butcher comp in which I took dauntless - much fun was had.

I am still unsure if I like ardent defender. Yes, it’s a no-sell while diving and disrupting the backline, but the cd is so huge, it’s not up for every teamfight and thus hinders her potential especially mid game when death timers are not as high and teamfights happen more frequently. Last but not least, it feels more suited to a bursty playstyle - dump everything, then pop defender and try to get out. Sacred ground lets you stay in fight pretty much forever and in turn increases the benefit of the aa damage boost.

Also summoning BobTheCat (@BobTheCat) to the thread.

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https://twitter.com/overnoes

Best space goats.

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I’d recommend to just keep trying it. A great Ardent Defender can win a teamfight by itself. Wasting 1000+ damage while putting an uncounterable threat in the middle of their team is the kind of move that wins games when they’re nearing the end. Sacred Ground doesn’t have that kind of playmaking potential.

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I see this, I like!

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