It already clears the entire lane of minions, but with the added free xp it seriously gives the team rag is on the xp advantage with no effort. It should not give xp.
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Trade offer
Ragna: I clean your lane once per 2 minutes and get exp.
Enemy team: Has one less ult to worry about in team fights.
13 Likes
Not a good trade offer when a lane is swept especially late game where it matters most. Not to mention said ult puts your team at a big advantage in xp levels. Not to mention at lvl 20 it gets a 2nd charge.
Iāll be honest, I picked Sulfuras Smash in a game a couple days ago and Iām now a Sufluras Smasher for life. I donāt know how I was playing Ragnaros before without it. Having a long-ranged stun with insane burst damage and AoE potential is just all gravy. It makes it so easy to set up your Blast Wave into double AA hits. Itās deadly.
What does Ragnaros even need a laneclear ult for anyway? Heās got amazing laneclear. He takes a whole wave out in like half a second. Lava Wave is just players being lazy.
2 Likes
Lava waveās main purpose is to get the experience rather than clear the wave. Any wave clear expert like Xul, can clear an entire wave as fast as he can travel down it, the minions might as well be made of paper. Ragnaross can do similar with the right build, without needing to pick Lava Wave.
The main value proposition of Lava Wave is that for the cost of a team fight ultimate, Ragnaross can remotely lane while participating in a team fight. There are some lesser cases where it brings value, such as against the zerg objective on braxis, or as a surprise attack when defending the core, but those will not be the main reason to take the ultimate.
So that he can lane while team fighting. If you pick Sulfuras Smash you have to pick either team fighting, or laneing since you cannot be in two places at the same time. Team fighting in this context is off-lane team fighting, such as over objectives, mercs or bosses. Sure Ragnaross can always lane later, but Lava Wave lets you lane any time it is off cooldown.
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minion xp is given on direct death, or by picking up the orbs on indirect death.
Lava wave clears minions; if it didnāt give xp, itād leave orbs. thatād decay and either defeat the point of it being global, or defeat the point of it being an ability by thus denying the team xp theyād otherwise get.
It gets ānormalā xp, not āextraā and itās ācostā is the opportunity that comes from it.
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I thought you had to get the exp orbs to get exp.
I always found LW insanely strong (due to my own success with it), but hindering your team by removing a lane of xp would be too harsh of a nerf, since it has not much else going on.
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If you last-hit a minion, you get the XP without having to collect the globe. You used to be required to pick up XP from the ground, but this was changed for being an unnecessary nerf to heroes like Azmodan.
Although even back then, Lava Wave was an exception and would collect XP globes like a hero.
3 Likes
Smash is underated for sure. Fun fact, molten core will increase the range of smash by a ton and you can garuntee a hit if you can catch someone in your Q. The extra stun will also ensure yoy hit your rune and atleast 2 meteors if aimed correctly. All together its almost enough to oneshot someone and at 20 its actualy enough to 100-0 most assassins and some bruisers.
Lava wave is perfect for patching up forgotten lanes in pubs and works great in any stall comp or naturally long obj fights. That much is true for sure.
But also smash is godlike follow up CC. Basicly lunar flare+++. You get free claim to the map when the other team is missing a player anyway.
Imo rags ults are fairly equal with eachother. Its just that lava wave is an easy I win button in any game where people forget about lanes and fight to much. Which is qm in a nutshell.
4 Likes
is it the gameās fault the average QM player is bad at soaking tho ? If a team let Rag win purely by spamming his ult they were already playing badly. Thats the fun about Rag. You can build him completly after what your team need. More soak or wombo combo and Molten Core makes him a good tower hero to defend forts/keeps or just help your team retreat or attack.
Only reason you might think he is too good is cause of how QM is. The real games are played in ranked where it balance out better.
God, I wish there was something to do that would delete Hanzo from long range by just picking 2 talents that have no impact on your builds whatsoever.
That would be so funny.
6 Likes
Would make lava wave a terrible ult as you would miss all the exp in that lane then.
From my understanding Smash is usually the superior ult as Rag clears lanes that it makes lava wave pretty redundant if you soak with him properly.
If you are against Rag you know you need good waveclear yourself or try to kill him he is one of the easier solo laners to gank.
Dunno. Iām a seasoned Rag player, I think LW is superior.
I checked HP. Last 4 patches (need more patches because Iāll use a lot of filters), SL, Masters only, at least lvl 25 with Rag. Lava wave is 78% pickrate. Which makes SS a niche pick, so itās not a surprise it has a higher winrate, itās more than likely picked in confidance (53% vs 59% wr).
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Level 10 No Q quest
~6 seconds clear time per rotation
Level 10 Q Quest (Completed)
4 seconds exactly per rotation
His wave clear is nuts, but the usage of Lava Wave is to deny macro timings not to soak lanes, if you see a merc camp being annoying in top lane and you want to be present in Cursed Hollowās 2/3 curse collected so its not going to be a 4v5, then this is where it plays a role the cost is you have no smash to smash.
2 Likes
Lava wave destroys minions all the way to the enemy core. Which means you can no longer soak that lane.
If it didnāt give xp, it would COST xp to your team, and no one would pick it.
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I wouldnāt call it niche just because itās picked less, itās just that Lava Wave is by far easier to use, so thatās not surprising. Itās why Bladestorm is by far more picked than Illusion Master or why Medivh isnāt picked very often.
You can also always get some value out of Lava Wave and it sort of extends your ability to stay in the game even if your team doesnāt really deserve it because youāve lost most of your buildings. It basically forces the opposing team to constrict their win condition to pretty decisively winning a team fight. Which is good if your team gets lucky or for some reason is a late game scaling team or has a disproportionate amount of absurdly OP 20s, but itās not necessarily a reliable strategy.
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I mean, I would call Medivh niche.
And yes, LW is super easy, but I wouldnāt say itās picked because itās easy.
And Iām a bit ashamed in my enemiesā names how often did they lose to me from ahead even at high mmr.
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Comparing the Ultimates is a bad argument. Every hero has 2 Ultimates, meaning that choosing one forgoes the other. By saying that one skill is better than another is just an opinion.
The REAL QUESTION is why is Lava Wave treated differently to essentially every other hero power in the game? Iād even go one further and question why Lava Wave (one button click) gives a whole wave of xp over something like Azmodanās Demon Lieutenant or Abathurās locust?
The Lava Wave cannot be killed, or stopped. It always gives the maximum xp at that time that the one button is clicked. All other skills or summons can be killed and stopped, and even if they arenāt, they cannot clear an entire wave by themselves.
For me itās the obvious stupid exceptions that Blizzard has baked into this Frankensteinās Monster of a game that drive me insane. If it had even 1 instance where something made logical sense, itās almost like the Universe would implode or Blizzard would become an actual decent company.
Not realistic example. Most decently skilled players will dodge the centre impact area of the ultimate. This is a big problem with that ultimate, and why you need to combo it from his swipe or an allied CC. If you just throw it at a skilled human without any sort of CC forcing them to tank it, they will dodge it.