I’m glad that I’ve captured your imagination. That’s honestly the hardest part of doing stuff like this sometimes, and what I tend to worry the most about.
D.Va is a special case though because every other Bruiser has access to damage-dealing abilities to supplement their output. D.Va technically has two, but Self Destruct doesn’t come online nearly often enough to count and Boosters is also her Movement tool. Moving Boosters to be primarily movement-related led her to have a whopping zero commonly available damage-dealing tools, so I felt it was appropriate to give her Micro Missiles to make up the difference.
Besides, it’s been a very popular community request.
Honestly I’m kind of married to the concept of not being able to Mount as a tradeoff. I’ll give it an update and poke you on Discord or something when it’s finished.
Edit: I wound up going with your suggestion.
To be entirely honest, most of the reason I was married to the original concept was because I felt the name was very clever.
The Rework’s Defense Matrix doesn’t move any faster than it currently does:
Relevant portion bolded for your convenience.
I’m willing to wait and see what shakes out in testing (if it ever happens). The lack of Big Shot is really harsh.
Fair enough.
I see!
When I said “get value”, though, I included zoning in that statement - in my experience, Nuclear Option Self Destructs that weren’t Warchief Assisted got literally zero value except against structures and a couple Zerg Waves. Every other time I’ve seen it, the enemy loitered in the blast radius and then backed off briefly for the detonation, then came right back in to fight - which is why I judged it so harshly. I defer to your experience in the matter, though.
Do you have any suggestions on how the Talent Tiers should be rearranged?
Well, wish granted. Pit Stop at 13 more or less does exactly that.
I see!
More or less, yes.
Why do you feel it’s strange?
I’m glad you liked them!
The intended effect is that you get shunted to the closest available pathable point from where you currently are. And yes, you could theoretically get extra distance/value from that safety push, but that’s actually intended: ON AIR reduces the duration of Boosters by 50%, so I’m actually pretty comfortable with the prospect of players abusing it as much as they can.
Thank you!
I’m still worried that it’s not enough. It’s not necessarily that Bunny Hop itself is bad, but Big Shot just does so much more.
I’m sorry, but I’m going to strongly disagree with you on that. Torpedo Dash makes D.Va incredibly difficult to catch and kill - it’s got pretty huge range and it allows D.Va to bypass bodyblocking and other obstacles. Adding it to Pilot D.Va by default would make whatever Health nerfs I gave to her pointless.
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Overall @Kith I like the ideas for your Mech AA the best and buffing Mech HP and nerfing pilot. Personally I think Aggression Matrix is often one of her best level 7s and Diverting Power is incredibly strong in a lot of circumstances as well, so I disagree on your ratings. Another thing I like is your suggestion of changing her movement speed debuffs depending on if attacking/channeling like in Overwatch. I don’t know how I feel about the changes to Boosters but I do agree with putting them on Z if anything rocket-y happens
This one’s a little weird, gotta say. The bonus is short, meaning you have to stay close to keep it rolling (1 extra range isn’t very long-ranged for someone with 850 hp), and the max result of +25% aa speed is pretty small. Overall this talent is going to give you maayyyyybe 3-5 seconds shaved off per mech, which will mean almost nothing with Big Shot, and the damage is nerfed on pilot AA anyway so it deosn’t seem… to do much. Maybe if you made it a 3-4s duration and stack 3% per stack up to 60% extra aa speed, after 20 attacks (5 seconds of attacking is a while), maybe 4% up to 80% or something, we’d be in business.
I’m very behind the idea of buffing MEKA → nerfing pilot. Pilot is lame. Torpedo Dash is really good, I agree, but there are times when you need Nanoweave because you’re up against a bunch of super mobile bursty people with iframes like Sam/Genji/Varian (probably shouldn’t be D.va here, just saying), having a dash won’t do anything. Also if there’s a Malf, same thing. On GGWP: versus really low mobility heroes, or versus really high mobility ones that can’t instagib you, GG WP is a stupidly strong talent.
WoW, really impressive work! Would love to see that, even if i still miss some more self sustain for her mech early on in the game … this is an other option to achieve the same: make her a viable sololaner / offtank.
I thought about it a bit more and, while I don’t agree that Torpedo Dash needs to be baseline, I’ve decided to move it back to its previous position at Level 16. GG, WP will be the new Level 20 Pilot Talent, with an adjusted power level to match.
I thought about it, but I feel that would be far too powerful. Self Destruct’s primary utility is zoning first and foremost and allowing access to any of its damage before it’s fully charged feels too Assassin-y.
Why not?
Good! I’m glad.
That’s fine with me. Reviews are subjective, after all.
That’s good, 'cause I really cannot stand how it’s currently permanent.
I feel that shifting Boosters to be strictly mobility out of the box is an important move because that simplifies when the player is supposed to use it. It still has peel functionality if used correctly, so I don’t see it as a nerf given that the damage was transformed into Micro Missiles.
The extra range is the real meat of the talent. The Attack Speed is there for extra DPS when you’re wailing on a target for an extended period, such as a structure (Tower/Fort/Keep/Core) or an objective monster (Garden Terror, Dragon Knight, Immortal, Protector, ect). It’s meant to allow you to more easily follow up on the important target of the moment after you’ve blown Self Destruct to zone out the enemy team. The fact that you get extra cooldown reduction from it is honestly tertiary.
I don’t think the Pilot is lame, per se, but I do feel all of the emphasis on D.Va’s Pilot Form is misguided.
Oh, certainly! I don’t think that Nanoweave is useless or even bad, I just feel that Torpedo Dash is useful in more situations.
No doubt, that 50% damage boost to the highest DPS in the game is no joke. It’s just that, typically, you don’t get much value from it compared to Torpedo Dash.
I’m glad you liked it! However, I should mention that I specifically avoided any form of self-sustain for D.Va (outside of Pit Stop, but that’s an exception because it’s on the Personal Defense tier) because she has Defense Matrix to mitigate damage and can basically heal herself to full for free with Self Destruct > Call Mech. Adding any additional sustain outside of that would make her very difficult to deal with.
idk, Boosters damage is pretty integral to her kit. In HotS Boosters is essentially D.va’s burst finisher which wouldn’t be reflected the same in Rockets, so I wouldn’t instantly take the damage off. Plus in Overwatch, D.va has essentially turned into a mobile burst bruiser who uses a combination of Boosters + Melee hits timed with the bump to chunk enemies down really quick in short range. Boosters is definitely an aggro ability in each game and imo… it does feel viscerally good to have that running-people-over aesthetic to compliment the sustained damage from her guns
I Really Enjoy this rework, however I do question the power of a level 16 armor reduction talent. Perhaps if this was moved to 20, or by a lesser amount. Say 5-10 armor since her Auto’s are AOE.
I really dislike things like armor debuffs because they not only increase your relative damage but your entire teams. Which can be very dangerous.
I personally hate the level 7 hanzo talent and am unsure of why they moved it from 20.
However I really enjoy this rework and am wholeheartedly hoping the devs implement this full list of changes besides perhaps that 16 (Perhaps it could just increase her range by 20% and increase the damage she deals at close range to 60%). Thank you for the amazing suggestions and the hard work. Changes like these take time and alot of forethought to think through and I think you did an amazing job.
I do want to ask though, her self destruct would still be usable with thrusters in the same manner right? And how would the level 20 bunnyhop talent interact with this? Would the mech continue bunny hopping max thruster speed towards the enemy team while getting ready to explode? (TBH I hope this is the case, I would love to see this It would be my final dream xD) Or would the bunny hop only apply if the mech is standing still?
The thruster implimentation also beg queston with the ON AIR talent, would self destruct be able to be shot over walls, but have a reduced thruster duration so you couldnt shoot it as far? I also would hope it works this way to allow more interesting self destruct play without the cheese of garrosh or VP Zeratul etc.
(Sorry if these questons have already been asked, new to this thread)
I actually pretty enjoy the different play styles between Pilot mode and Mech mode. I thought they would label her as a multi-class when they announce her
The change for Bunny Hop is very neat, especially its lv 20 upgrade
I went back and messed with Suppressing Fire a bit. The stack value is now 2.5%, meaning you get up to the full bonus of 25% faster than the previous 1% per shot.
For a defensively-oriented Bruiser like D.Va, I don’t think she needs a “burst finisher” - especially when she’s already got the insanely strong Self Destruct and the close-range DPS I added to her Basic Attacks.
Also, while I’m okay with looking to the source material for inspiration, I don’t feel that importing a character from a FPS game on a 1:1 scale is a good idea - especially when the source material has such short TTKs.
I’m glad that you liked it! To address your concern, Highlight Shots is very carefully balanced for that reason - at most, the D.Va player in question would be able to stack -4 armor per second, up to -20 after 5 seconds. It’s intended to give D.Va some extra value for sticking to a target and is at a tier that competes with other very powerful and very valuable talents, so I’m honestly not that worried about it. Additionally, the debuff would fade after 2 seconds, leaving D.Va unable to get value out of the lowered armor for Self Destruct.
If it turns out to be a problem, I can always cut the duration down to 1 second, practically forcing D.Va to stay attached to the target to get any real value from the Talent in question.
I’m really glad that you think so highly of the work I’ve done. Thank you for your kind words.
Yes. I’ll clarify that.
Bunny Hop and Boosters are mutually exclusive like how they currently are, unfortunately. If they weren’t… I’m not sure how comfortable I’d be with a mobile Bunny Hop/Self Destruct missile, because that honestly sounds terrifying!
ON AIR would give you the ability to launch Self Destruct over walls, yes. However, you’re also right that the reduced Boosters duration would make Self Destruct’s attack vector much shorter.
I could see Multiclass being the case if Pilot D.Va had a skillset that didn’t require Talent investment to build. As it is, though… not so much.
Very well made thread! Honestly you pointed out every problem I’ve been saying in the forums for months and if I am really honest here I feel like I dont have to add anything to this except one thing.
You forgot to suggest to the devs to add the Officer D.Va skin to this game.
With that said I honestly really wish everything you suggested in the second post was added because I whole heartily agree with it 100%.
Oh, the Devs will probably see it at some point. Will they actually implement even 1% of the ideas here? Not in any of our lifetimes. If Blizzard actually took community feedback when proceeding with reworks, then Nova wouldn’t be in the state she’s currently in and instead would function similar to how she does in SC2, where she as an “Assault mode” and a “Stealth mode”.
The problem is that the other talents at Level 1 are relatively moderate increases in power and Torpedo Dash… isn’t. It would have to see its range reduced to something on the level of Tychus’s Run and Gun to be a Level 1 talent, and I’d rather not try to cram a square peg into a round hole like that.
i’m just a really big nerd about game design ok
Thank you so much! I’m really happy that you think so highly of my work.
I’m going to remain hopeful!
I think part of the issue is the perception that there’s no evidence that community feedback is being processed. In my experience, it typically is, but a lot of the time the feedback isn’t particularly detailed and that can cause all manner of headaches.
For the sake of the example, let’s say that the overwhelming opinion is that Thrall is too strong. The developers look at the data and see that he’s performing within reasonable parameters, but the community is still unhappy and constantly demands that something be done. How should the developers approach the problem?
Leave Thrall alone because the winrates/pickrates show he’s fine?
Increase his costs and cooldowns so his impact remains the same, but requires greater management?
Shift power to and from various abilities?
If so, which ones get taken from and which ones get given to?
Buff underperforming or underpicked talents?
Nerf overperforming or overpicked talents?
Reorganize his talent tiers so his build strength shifts at different points throughout the match?
Completely overhaul his talent tiers so his build options are radically different?
Replace abilities or effects altogether?
If so, what gets replaced and what does it get replaced with?
And, for every question that you can think up an answer to: Why?
Very rarely, if ever, does community outcry provide potential solutions for any of these questions. And, even if they do, the development team still needs to implement the new design (which takes time), test it for functionality (which takes time), and then test it for balance (which takes time). And then all of that time is multiplied by however many characters there are on the roster (in this case, 86), because every change made to an individual character has a ripple effect that ultimately impacts every other character in the game as their balance shifts.
And then, anything new will require new assets (icons, animation, FX, sounds), which is then typically multiplied by howevermany skins the character has.
The Heroes team has shown in the past that it’s more than willing to listen to the community and integrate community ideas (like renaming Raynor’s Trait or looking into the coloration of Percentage Damage), but from what I’ve seen the community rarely makes complete suggestions. Even even when they do, there’s usually a massive effort/time requirement involved and it doesn’t always work out into something that the Heroes team can show openly because whatever the suggestion was wound up not being good for the game.
I’ve been doing Game Design related things for almost nine years now. Making a videogame requires a lot of work, and adding “multiplayer” and “competitive” to the equation exponentially increases that requirement. While I’m certainly hopeful that the Heroes team will look upon my suggestions favorably, it’s not going to break my heart if they don’t use them because I’m well aware of just how many moving parts HOTS has.
i’m still desperate to be noticed though, i’d kill for a blue post in any of my threads
Well it would be competing with Rush Down, often hailed as the best talent on the tier, and your ON AIR talent, which seems equally good. You’d be trading enhanced mech mobility for a much safer pilot mode.
I wanted to list my thoughts on current dva. Let me know if you agree / disagree.
Current dva:
it’s difficult to draft a bruiser who cant fill the solo lane role.
She’s a great team fighter, but can she fit the team comp where shes part of the 4 man pack? Id like to see changes to her that address that.
An example idea would be a talent that provides a weak mech AA life leech. Good for long term sustain (like lunara’s heal) but not strong for team fight survivability.
i don’t like how dva’s talents have themed rows.
I get that themed rows have their place. However, shes a pretty cool character that could have her tree opened up for build paths. You compared her Rexxar. I’d like to see her more like Greymayne. Similar to grey’s tree, you could have talent rows where you choose to empower one form or another (which you’ve kinda done).
Her general build paths could include making pilot more powerful, loading mech up with more utility or rapid self destruct recharge build.
I actually dont like how Big Shot is designed.
To me, that should be the talent you go to if you want to empower pilot form. Instead, people choose it because it helps them return to mech form faster.
Idea: Remove the 8s CDR of mech form per hero hit.
New passive for picking bigshot: hero damage done in pilot form now also contributes towards self destruct charge.
This change allows players who enjoy playing pilot form to stay for extended periods of time and still have access to more self destructs.
Bastion ![:expressionless:](https://d3rakab8gpdsa3.cloudfront.net/en/heroes/images/emoji/twitter/expressionless.png?v=6" ":expressionless:")
