Omg, more ‘unfun’ arguments. Let’s just nerf every single one of our favorite heroes until they’re all just wet paper bags fighting over objectives or middle lane.
Seems legit.
"Plz nerf, iceberg sank the titanic and now my team is sinking. Then KTZ haz chain 2 pull Jack and rose but kill both. Unfair! In movie, only one die!
Plz nerf
ty"
Do as you please, but if you make the claim that Balancing should happen around QM, you better try showing solutions, because it is widely known that the mode has too many random factors aswell as aggravating circumstances (like the majority of the playerbase playing assassins) that make balancing around this mode extreamly hard, if not quite impossible.
Zag’s hitbox moved into and just barely touched the chain. Which as far as game programming is concerned is a hit.
The chain’s animation was wonky but it basically said “I hit something” so it re-positioned itself to be centered on the target.
you really are proving that there’s literally nothing that could be wrong with a hero’s kit to make you agree it needs to be fixed if that hero happens to be ur main.
it’s literally supposed to be a skillshot but is bugged & will reposition itself onto a hero that it missed and you’ll defend that.
This whole thread has been a waste of my life, his ability could reach into the enemy’s spawn at the start of the game and uninstall the enemy team’s game off their computer and you’d still say it’s fine because you enjoy playing as him, who cares if everyone hates playing against him
No. It most certainly hit her.
It’s just the animation readjusting the chain after doing so, so that it’s centered on her and not pulling her from the edge of her hitbox.
no it didn’t, it was way off of her. If I could post images I’d share a screenshot to show anyone who for whatever reason is reading this but I can’t.
It’s, like, a full 50% of a hero’s hitbox to the right. You could fit a Zarya grenade in between Zagara & that chain. Chains is broken, it needs to either be nerfed or be fixed
The chains hitboxes are accurate to the pixel.
Wonky animations aside, zagara isn’t exactly the best at juking anyway. No dashes or blocks.
Kel is the mage Butcher. He can’t “OMG insta die” unless he’s at blight max. Hell he can’t even spike unless he’s halfway there.
What do people say to “Butcher broken omg” threads? You adjust your game if he’s in it, you focus on making his meat not happen. Its the same with kel. Don’t offer him the opportunity to get those initial stacks, because it’s not like those first 15 hits are given to him for free. Split the lanes more evenly early game and deny him the big team fights he wants to hoard his blight stacks so he’s playing catch up and where possible Lane against him with mobile heroes.
You wouldn’t lane against Butcher with a hero with no way to counter his dash, whom is a sitting duck to his melee. Similarly don’t lane early versus Kel with heroes where landing his unspiked chains will be easy. Versus super mobile heroes he has real difficulty getting to 15 blight.
So whilst his animation could use tidying up, imo it would only be to reflect its actual hit box. No nerfs needed.
this isn’t really a measure of balance. What a bronze 5 player finds unfun and what a grandmaster finds unfun are different things. People on the lower end of the skill brackets tend to think anything they can’t figure out or adapt to instantly is unfun.
Considering super mobile characters make KTZ very useless due to the skillshot nature of his kit, this is actually pretty silly.
this can only happen if you’re CCed or predictable. One of those is 100% your fault btw.
If you die every single time you get chained, you’re either facing very good KTZ players or you’re very bad at facing KTZ.
yea and a lot of the more skilled players hate that Genji has been nerfed so harshly. Ruining more heroes because there is precedent for it is dumb.
She also has a fairly large hitbox, she’s one of the easiest characters to hit with the spike if she’s within range.
I say he’s the most unfun character to play against in the game and should be deleted tbh
you can’t blink out of the way of something if it’s being cast at you from twice your vision radius
>Pulling through fog of war
Also can be done every 25 - 30 seconds on top of the entire combo losing its meaning if they cannot pull the target.
Also Anti-fun movement should be made illegal.
Oh so you’re saying this KTZ is so good he can hit you even when he doesn’t know you’re there? Not even bush-checking?
It was enough for them to nerf Stitches’ range and that turned out to be a good thing bc he sucked to play against too and doesn’t now. 20-30 second CD is not enough to make up for getting fishing-hooked from the blind and instakilled when it does land – it doesn’t matter if it rarely lands, it doesn’t matter if it tanks his winrate bc it happens so infrequently. a KTZ doing it nonstop over a 30 minute game will land it enough times that the match will feel awful to play against a hero with an ability that has a 10%+ chance to just erase you from existence and there’s nothing you can do about.
it’s not fun to play against. As-is it’s balanced to be used against buildings (which are predictable) and heroes (who can move around to foul the shot and provide two moving targets for KTZ to hit) and the iceburg was an optional talent, but then they made his iceburg built-in and now the chains are OP. They need two out of three of; nerfed range, severely nerfed ability width or nerfed travel speed bc the range is gigantic, he’s baseline in completely control of where it’ll go and it’s not really a skillshot.
Where is this “twice your vision range” meme coming from? I’ve never had a chain come at me from the fog of war resulting in my death. Either I see a spike appear or the chains are coming from a Bush where the spike is hidden.
I’m not buying in this whole kel can combo you from halfway down the lane business without you knowing its about to happen. If kel is placing his spike in a place where vision isn’t, so the spikes are coming at you from the fog thats WP on his part.
Still, I reference my early post. He doesn’t have spike before 15 blight. So even if we humour this idea that kel can snipe you with spike when you don’t know he’s there, he can’t do that to combo people before spike.
Talking about “how to counter a spike and 30 blight kel?” is like counters for a fully meat Butcher. Far and few between other than playing super cautious and coordination from team to punish them when they go for a kill. Unlike Butcher though kels cc can actually be dodged and doesn’t rely on a blind or teleport to survive.
Point and Aim => Glacial = Skillshot.
Point and Aim to grab a target from the spike to pull it => Also Skillshot.
You are funny.
Some guy blind folded threw a spike and randomly threw the chain to land, its that predictable you can dodge the moment he activates it, seriously what the hell is this, you all can complain over how hard to play heroes have damage and stuff and how you all want as “camera material guy James Raynor” standing still and Auto Attacking stuff with nothing to worry about, but getting pulled when he has no vision over his target? Rofl
Also he’s an exposed bone for dive heroes and blows up in an instant, talk about a combo with so much preparation he has his counters lol.
The devs lowered the range and were close to removing Fishing hook because they are inept and think Bronze 5 crybabies represent the average, skilled player. many of us have spoken out on these types of changes and how they are really only desired by players at such low skill brackets that almost any complaint they make doesn’t matter. Even to this day, the lower hook range is a problem and punishes skilled players for making plays that would otherwise result in a kill.
He only sucked to play against if you were bad. Current Stitches is actually more powerful thanks to a much improved talent pool and it just barely balances him out from the hook range nerf. This is why the perception of “unfun”, especially from lower skill players, doesn’t matter and shouldn’t factor much into balance.
this only happens if you are predictable, a problem with your skill, not KTZ.
statistics matter more than player feelings though.
if there was nothing you could do about it, KTZ would be dominating pro play, master league, etc. Somehow, SKILLED players do not have an issue with KTZ. now why do you think that is?
Nobody cares how you feel when your feelings are due to your lack of skill when it comes to something. Get better at the game.
Ya can’t hit what ya can’t… hit… so just zig zag if you’re gonna go near his spike.
Plus, it’s nearly impossible to see a Kel’Thuzad who is good enough to get you with the combo every time without a hitch. I tried him a few times and… no I hate it. So just be glad there’s only like three Kel’Thuzads dominating qm in total.
You sound like someone that has never actually played the hero yourself. Let me fill you into something. Spiking and pulling is actually the least effective way of getting you combo done. Most of the time you will get a combo through either chaining the tank and using him as an anchor (whichputs you in the danger zone of the enemy tank and is therefore risky aswell as hard to hit, because you anchor and your targets are moving) or you will chain a frontline target and after that create a spike to pull someone into a combo, which is similary risky aswell as unreliable, because most frontliners have some sort of safety button aswell as a healer that can react.
KTZ combo is not as inevitable and uncounterable as you make it out to be.
I do agree that his chain range is quite long, but there are several ways to counter it.
Target pulled by chain will be stopped at terrain, therefore position yourself so that there will be something between you and his spike. Even just a little touch will ruin his combo, since most of its damage come from Q.
Or have someone from your team stands between you and his spike, thus makes he misses his combo.
Another way is when you get chained and spike is up, run toward the spike. I know this sounds weird but most KT rely on the time victim flying to the spike to timing his combo. Doing so will negate that thus mess up his combo.
Remember most of his combo damage is inside Q, so even if you are gonna get rooted by W, try to position so that Q will be missed, its project hit box is quite small.