Kel'thuzad or Orphea or Jaina?

General Discussion
1

I been playing with 3 (at times 4 = full party) guys in SL , we all r in bronze :stuck_out_tongue:

We doing good, but whenever there is a team tht has all abilities lined up in synergy , we lose badly.

So i wanted to have some wombo combo options going on with my team

We hav a good healer
Also a good tank (mostly plays Diablo or ETC)

With those tank options, (keeping their ulties in mind)
I want to decide between trying to play KTZ or Orphea,
who is going to add more value in team fights?

I play Ming well, do damage, get kills, but if my tank n bruiser is wiped out with a perfect timed combo, i cant do sh!t n hav to run.

Orpheaā€™s stun jaws ulti can b a setup for diablo to hit his ulti to have overlapping damage from underneath.

While, following up the other ulti of orphea after a mashpit can wipe out everyone whose dancing.

On the other hand, KTZ
his freeze ball+root ulti can be followed up by diablo ulti
also, if etc mashpit, ktz fissure ulti can be usefull and can be repeatedly casted 2 or 3 times after lvl20 upgrade.

Any other heroes you can think of?

Im also thinking to add a gazlow in my team,
Etc/diablo
KTZ/Orphea
Healer
Gazlow

these 4 would make really gud impact in team fights.

But all tht looks good on paper, thts why i wanted some suggestions n advises from players who have used those heroes or played against them much more than me in higher leagues.

2

When you have someone who plays ETC often, then Eternal Feast is a nice combo option into mosh too. I would guess KTZ kills them faster though.

For getting away a well played Orphea is definitely better than a KTZ, he has zero escape.

3

KT > Orphea in general, but not sure if thatā€™s true for your situation as well.

3 Likes
4

True, KTZ has no escapes, but hell lot of damage, and AoE damage

Orphea can escape, n survive between 2 or 3 players if played well
KTZ cant survive at all, unless he just blows them up quickly.

Also, i think KTZ will be a bit easier to play, with orphea i need to learn the Q build and positioning,

With KTZ its just stand behind ur tank, n do ur stuff, even if not nsane damage, i can do some damage with ktz.

im also thinking abt gazlow ulti, tht sticks all together n stuns, after tht, diablo+orphea ulti = team wipe out

or Etc + orphea after gazlow ulti
or even etc + ktz
or diablo + ktz ulties AFETR gazlow ulti = team wipe out

but which one to chose, ktz? or orphea,
i hav 10k gold only, lol, n i can buy one only,

but i also want some tips n tricks n the DOā€™s n DONTā€™s about KTZ n Orphea,

5

If you are all in Bronze, I would recommend Jaina, rather than the other two. Since people in Bronze tend to be very poor about positioning and general awareness, she can get a ton of value from her kit. In addition, Ring of Frost combos nicely with Mosh Pit or Apocalypse, and she does a ton of burst damage. She also tends to have better survivability than KTZ, what with all her slows and Ice Block if you finish her baseline quest.

10 Likes
6

the issue is,
it will be me whose gonna take up the role or orphea/ktz. I tried playing jaina, couldnt wrap my head around her, or may b i went for the wrong talentsā€¦

the mos recent blow up we experienced was from jaina, in last game, cudnt do anything

it mostly started with = Blaze charge n stun, followed by ring of frost n blizzard, n their zuljin will add a few AA n my frontline goes PUFF = disappears into thin air,
and all tht in 2 seconds, the blizzardā€™s 3rd hit lands on empty space, bcoz the first 2 hits already wiped us out.

Jaina i had in mind, but i dnt know, even i feel uncomforable if enemy has it, n yes, shes awesome, but i dnt know, i dnt feel like trying her out again,
unless i have some concrete do this this this kind of a thing. not sure

u mean ktz is more value than orphea?

7

Yes. In skilled hands, KT brings more to the table.

8

The problem with KTZ is that if they have any dive, or if your tank is out of position, you are dead. He has absolutely no way to dodge or escape if anyone decides to focus him. If you can completely trust your tank, KTZ will definitely do more damage, but if your tank is off chasing butterflies, there is nothing you can do except die horribly. He tends to be very feast or famine that way.

Best bet is to try both of them in Unranked and see which feels better for you.

1 Like
9

Yeah, i seen KTZ players get pulled by stitches hook (with 3 other players of stitches team standing with stitches , not all full health, but moderate health) , n ktz just rolls his hands after being pulled, n all 4 wiped out, in like just 1.5 seconds :open_mouth:

well, like i say, on PAPER im a pro :smiley: ,
tell me, how effective can b this escape tool for ktz
= if someone dives, u put a chain on him, erupt a spike, shain him to spike, root him, n run,

is tht executable? if yes, i think it can buy enough time for KTZ, or no?

n tell me abt jaina, u hav made me start to think abt her again, dnt leave me stranded

10

Its mainly about your own personal preferences amd play style , however if you play both , you should learn the weakness and strenghts on both comparatively to your own playstyle so you know in which situation ktz is better and when orpgea would be better .

Karabars brought a good point though , ktz does tend to cover more grounds in how he can fight , poke , innitiate fights . but he will have a much harder time to get away from a target than orphea would .

If your the kinda person that think " screw safety ! Give me more ways to kill people !" then ktz wouls be better suited lol but he requires more skills to master :+1:

3 Likes
11

hmmm,

you know, honestly, you guys not helping ,

you saying, this is good, but tht not bad,

how m i gonna chose? lol

KTZ n Orphea, both not banned much in bronze, jaina is banned or taken,

so these 3 heroes,
n i wil learn them in qm or make custom game or AI games for practise before i bring them to SL,

jaina i think i have already, ktz n orphea i dnt, need to buy one of them hmmm

i think i m tht type, i play Li Ming Calamity, n jump in,
i dnt see li mings jumping in like ilidan anywhere in bronze,

but ofcourse, Li ming can jump out to, ktz got nothing, even orphea can add distance with her Qs , hmmmm

12

Probably not, depending on who or what is diving you. It takes a fair amount of time to get that entire combo off, and it can be hard to hit the skillshots if you are running for your life. For example, the last time I faced a KTZ was a Quick Match on Cursed Hollow. I was on Artanis, and because it was QM, I was our teamā€™s main ā€œtankā€. The enemy team had Leoric as their front line. Any time the Leoric ignored me, I would just go back there and murder him. It think by the end of the match he had 6 deaths, and although he was top damage on his team, the only person on my team with less damage than him was our healer. Mind you, Artanis is not even the scariest dive hero you could face.

One of the reasons I like to see Jaina on my team is she can work in any comp and on any map, and she can either follow up on someone elseā€™s set up, or be the set up herself. If you are used to playing Ming, the major thing to get used to with Jaina is her much shorter range. She has to be closer to the enemy than you have to be with Ming, so positioning on her is critical. Fortunately, her entire kit slows people, so if you get caught, you have a decent chance to escape.

Thatā€™s also something to keep in mind with KTZ, his range is also fairly short, so may be a bit of a shock if you have been playing a lot of Ming.

5 Likes
13

I play greymane a lot too, n been playing valla recently in the middle when my li ming gets banned,

so range is not an issue for me, i can adjust, bcoz im sure, ktz n jaina, both hav better range than valla (n i dnt take the range extending tallent on 20, i go aa build with rancor mostly, only if i hav 2 solid tanks to stay in front) ,

ok, tell me wht build u suggest for jaina?

wait, i edit this n put the build in here:

1 = Fingers of Frost (globe quest giv 10% extra damage n more mana generation)
4 = Frost Shard (frostbolt pierce)
7 = Ice Lane (frost bolt on chilled target reduce cd)
10 = Ring of Frost
13 = Ice Barrier (gains shield, gud against dive heroesā€¦ if no dive heroes than i go icy veins)
16 = Numbing blast (chill target rooted by cone, added escape n better to land blizzard more effective)
20 = Cold snap (ulti upgrade if more team fight centered map, if more solo type like temples = deep chill, to increase slows for better 1v1)

thts wht i will go for, (as per my understanding n reading the abilites n talents,

so, how much m i wrong?

14

I will leave build suggestions to people who play her, as I am generally terrible at playing mages. Cassia is my go-to hero when I play a ranged assassin. Most of what I know about Jaina is from playing with or against her. The ranged assassin main I play with most often tends to play Mephisto or Ming. They do play Jaina, just not as much.

1 Like
15

ah, then lets hope some wandering jaina soul sets foot in this topic :smiley:
i edit the topic n added JAINA in it too, now im sure some jainas may come :smiley:

oh, n one question, abt the hero u play most,

shield battery n phase bulwark work better in speedily gaining shields?
or shield surge n phase bulwark will work better?

16

Shield Battery if it is sustained ability damage, like a Gulā€™dan or Lunara. Shield Surge if they are burst. Since I mostly see burst damage comps when I am on Artanis, I almost always go Shield Surge.

However, if you are new to him, Shield Battery tends to be the safer pick. It doesnā€™t require you to be running around at basically no health. I know the hero fairly well, so have a pretty good idea of how much punishment he can take, so can be a little more daring with his HP.

1 Like
17

Coz at times i have to fill in as a bruiser , specially when i dnt hav my whole team with me, n im playing solo, i go artanis then, thts the only one i can play a bit with.

thts wht i go with

1 = Reactive parry (if objective like BoE or GoT than = Amateur opponent)
4 = Shield Battery (for speedy recharge of shield)
7 = Chorno surge (increase AA speed = shield pop up faster)
10 = depends on team comp
13 = phase bulwark (if mostly aa damage enemy = templar zeal)
16 = force of will
20 = zealot charge (if took purifier beam then i upgrade it, very rare i take upgrade of supression pulse

in talent calculator on one site, when i chose shield surge, the basic attacks cd offered = 6 sec reduction per basic attack, in general its 4 seconds reduction, if chose shield battery, it stay 4 seconds. may b a bug, not sure

18

Honestly, I almost never take Reactive Parry. Amateur Opponent gets value against anything that isnā€™t a hero, including buildings, so it makes taking camps and pushing so much stronger. Since I am typically in the solo lane as Artanis, pushing and mercing is fairly important. In the few cases I donā€™t need AO, I take Seasoned Marksman. Really the only time I take Reactive Parry is if I am going to be spending a lot of time directly fighting something like Hammer or Butcher. Any fast attack hero, like Tracer or Tychus, will basically render RP useless.

If you want to start a thread on Artanis advice, go for it. I can easily make a huge post on just evaluating his talents!

2 Likes
19

DONE :smiley: ā€¦

so we keep this thread abt my other issue,
KTZ JAINA ORPHEA ,
hmm

20

Jaina is def easiest of the three. With ktz you will carry in bronze without a doubt but you have to master his combos. Any less and your team will lose. My friend is great as him and sucks in the early game without quest so keep that in mind. Orphea is hard too but more forgiving. Wouldnt really pick her dont like her. With jaina you just hve to understand that sheā€™s very squishy and unlikely to hold up in a fight if you stay long. Throwdown your combo and get out.