Kel'Thuzad is too Weak amongst mages

The way both hotslogs and HeroesProfile sorts that data makes it difficult to use.

You need to look at the relative winrates among each league.

Not the actual number.

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Another problem on those sites is very low samples at extreme ends of the MMR spectrum. A hero that has 6 games played a week cannot be drawn reliable data from.

It is impossible to know from 3rd party sites whether Probius is currently overtuned for example. Sure he wins a lot, but his pick rate is non-existent. And if you want to see how he does in Master… Literally 0 games last week (simply no hotslogs data available) and 2 games last week in Diamond.

When Kel’Thuzad gets me, he gets me and I’m either dead, or seeing the light. Is he strong alone? No. There are heroes who can be a pain for him, just like most mages. Valeera and Zeratul can mess him up if he isn’t careful. But with his team he can be extremely annoying. He can 100-0 most squishies if they don’t take a spell armor talent or are helped by their team. He’s not weak, but he requires a few things to be lethal.

Had fun as a Valeera against him. We lost, but that’s probably because my team kept getting wrecked. I mean, to be fair, Valeera is slippery especially with her unstoppable ult. Double unstoppable? Yes, please.

Might share replay later on another thread if I feel like it.

KTZ requires a much higher skill cap than Kael does. YOu get a proper player playing KTZ and I promise you he is far from weak.

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Bonus Damage so he can kill you even faster than he already does… yes no thank you!


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I’m not 100% what you mean by that, but it doesn’t really matter. The idea wasn’t to give realistic numbers. The point was to illustrate that while KTZ’s combo might have (slightly) lower maximum damage than Pyroblast-fueled KT combo, he makes up for that by having his full combo available far more frequently.

Kael’Thas can Pyroblast one person every two teamfights or so. KTZ can do his full combo every teamfight, sometimes multiple times in the same fight. And is also free to use it during random picks or skirmishes in the meantime without risking it being unavailable for the next (more important) fight.

I don’t really see the difference. Both are skillshot-based quests, and in both cases the difficulty of completing it depends on both you (for being good at hitting things) and your enemies (for being hard to hit). The actual shots are a bit different, but the basic concept is the same. I suppose KTZ’s shots are slightly harder to hit, but in return he doesn’t run the danger of progress resetting on death.

(I could agree that KTZ’s quest is harder to complete in games with the classic QM 5-squishy combat, but that’s just situational weakness. In normal comps it’s perfectly doable).

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But isn’t master of the Cold dark bonus damage for sticking spells? :thinking: :thinking::thinking:

Doesn’t he… Already have one of those things…? I know, let’s make it a repeatable quest!

Yes maybe he’s weak at lower ranks LOL

YEs. But I NEED TO SKILLSHOT for he is good.

KTZ ne buffs so that way NO SKILLSHOT. Autoaim assist needed otherwise he weak, not auto-hit like PYROBLAST

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Depends on the poke, but generally yes, yes it is.

He can only operate within a certain range so if you keep hitting him where he can’t reach you he’s not going to be able to do much.

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yeah he is indeed weak, and I would like it to stay that way, a good ktz with a good team is pretty opressive with the amount off cc that he can apply, i cant imagine if they buff him, but maybe they will, but nobody knows

Un are we playing the same game?

His only short comings is his short range. Step inside that and he will delete all but the most durable front line

I still think they need to tone down the damage in his combo.
Reduce the cooldowns, increase the range if you must, but it’s dumb for him to just

And that be pretty much all the depth the hero has.