It's time for a Warcraft MOBA

Ya I understand what you’re saying, but I just don’t think the moba genre really has to evolve.
I feel like the original creation of a moba with dota 1 and then the streamlining of the genre by riot back in 2009 is the peak of how mobas should be.
I just don’t think there’s much that needs to be innovated on.

I remember playing and loving Dawngate way back in like 2014? I think.
The game was so fun and it still followed the traditional format of mobas with farming, items, 3 lane map with some slight map deviations.

Unfortunately EA expected the game to be as big and do as well as LoL, but that wasn’t the case, so they shut it down.
Similar to HotS in alot of ways.

The things I never liked about Extreme Candy War 2004 (And therefore DotA and LOL), are that you can miss gold by not landing the killing blow. Then, when you did get the money, running back to base to buy something felt like it set back more than it helped. It’s a team game, but felt like it’s missing some key team elements.

Anyway, if they did make an all WarCraft MOBA, I would ask that they exclude anything that was added with the World of WarCraft, since they made that a pay by month subscription, and I still have not forgiven them for that. Maybe it would have been okay if you paid for a months worth of play, and as soon as you logged in, it would start consuming your bought time.

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An unneeded mirco-action that only distracted from actual skills and planning.

You forgot the part where the elitist jerk curses you out for taking their gold.

Dota never felt like a team game. It’s a solo game with other players to annoy you.

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If you were talking about a MOBA mode in WOW, then I’d be down. Cloning LOL but using Warcraft characters not so much.

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Why don’t you just play LOL to be honest? Because you want the Warcraft skins?
Enjoy LOL for what it is then and have a picture of Malfurion on your 2nd monitor?

I remember when I brought Transformers Monopoly because I like them both BUT it just doesn’t feel the same and both on their own are honestly better


Edit: I think you have answered your own question as why they didn’t just do a clone:

You would never steal too many people away from LOL (a few warcraft fans who play LOL). There is no way a company would ever risk this.


Offtopic edit

It would have been interesting to see if they had’ve cloned LOL and re-skin at the very start of MOBAs, I wonder how well the game would have done.

I don’t think any better because you’d only be poaching your own fanbase and LOL already had established as “the best/popular MOBA”.
Personally I think HOTS is better and a lot of those games was actually trying to implement HOTS stuff into them, but due to timing, cost sunk-cost fallacy and poor monetisation, HOTS unfortunately didn’t do very well.

Maybe HOTS would have done better had it not used Blizz characters and focused on an original IP… Doubt it due to the above issues but is interesting none the less.

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  1. I would never touch that.
  2. There are a million games already doing exactly that.

but how would it being Warcraft make it better, or convince more players to play it than HotS did? WoW players didn’t exactly flock into HotS.

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The one and only reason I started playing HotS is because of knowing the characters. I’m willing to bet it would have done even worse.

I wanna preface this beforehand because everyone has different opinions, likes, and dislikes.
Myself and group of friends at the time (6 total) shared the same opinion about ALMOST every aspect of the game.
Of those opinions, the one I’ll reference here:
We all wished it was a Warcraft moba only, because thats what we know blizzard for and what we loved.
Also it was jarring having all of the IP’s mashed together in some weird “nexus” lore.

Again, that doesn’t mean everyone disliked that, evidently that isn’t the case.

Also, the goal shouldn’t be to get WoW players into the game.
If WoW players liked it, they would play it from time to time, maybe even spend money on skins for Warcraft heroes they liked.
But it wouldn’t be their main game. There’s a very good chance SOME League and DotA players would have migrated and played it.
It would have garnered it’s own community, just like HotS did and that would be that.

Not everyone who loved Warcraft 1-3 liked MMO’s and I’m willing to bet a good portion of them completely avoided WoW because they liked the top down isometric RTS gameplay instead.

And also, there aren’t many at all.
It’s League and DotA2 as the mobas majority of people play because that’s the only option.
Then there’s a few mobile mobas, that PC players are not going to go near.

Did you play LOL?

I don’t really consider 6 people as “many” TBH.

If I do a search on steam, I get 471 games flagged as a “moba”, though the actually listed gets diluted because steam is trying to use their algorithms to predict what games I would play/buy instead of just showing me options limited by that flag.

Many of those are going to be cheap clones, others are probably not going to suit a “moba” flag to you as they try to mix-and-match other genre features to set themselves a unique niche – since smite has the first-person perspective (and started their sequel) some try to blend overwatch and/or fortnite, but with minions and lanes into a ‘unique’ game.

“Moba” sees more iterations and ‘success’ on the mobile platforms, and while as a ‘purist’ that might not suit you, these are made to make money, not serve as some artistic statement that only stands out if it happens to have a specific skin for people to digest the content.

“Moba” as a genre is terrible, and while it stood out as being a ‘new’ genre in ‘recent’ decades, a lot of the attempts to get into it have dramatically and quickly failed as the perception of a “moba” requires a significantly larger playerbase to sustain the game that are willing to actually play the game.

Blizzard might have a unique niche toward attempting a “moba” but it’d either have to be as a battleground/dungeon within WoW to make use of the existing playerbase and resources, or they’d have to carve out a ‘unique’ genre and redefine how the game is played to suit smaller matches.

If they were to repackage their RTS story telling as a series of pve moba mini-maps, then they could sell a “warcraft 4” that then has “moba” pvp, but they’d probably have to build the game around have 1v1, 2v2 and/or 3v3 matches.

Instead of needing 10 players to occupy 3 ‘lanes’, they’d have to consider having 3 players, or 1 player controlling 3 players and build a game around something akin to how TLV and/or rexxar plays toward something a bit closer to Warcraft 3 in having ‘units’ and resource management, but reducing the oh-so-scary formation management of dozens of units.

If they can cut down on the needed amount of players for individual matches and have pve content, then they could feesibly create another “warcraft” game that tells stories apart from whatever WoW does with the expansions and subscriptions, so they’d be able to sell to a ‘new’ audience instead of competing against themselves with what they already have.

Otherwise, moba are just a huge cost for people that generally don’t even actually want to play them since they’re, generally, a terrible game experience.

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I’ll say it again because it will give you exactly what you are asking for:

Play DotA Allstars in Warcraft III: Reforged.

The models and effects are as good as you are going to get in a stand Alone version of a “Warcraft only MOBA”.

https://youtu.be/QKerRCjrEuA?si=RJrG-Pukm3p4yPO1

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Pretty obvious I only played a handful of times. My comments reflect more on Extreme Candy War than any other game.

Ok, but that’s not an argument for why Blizzard should make a WC only MoBA rather than HoTS. It’s just that you and your friends are warcraft fans. If you all were Diablo fans, you wouldn’t care about a WC only MoBA.

Why though?

There are a lot of MoBAs, not all of them are mainstream. But Most MoBAS you will find use items and gold/resource, because they think these things have to be in a MoBA and so include them. I can’t see how making one more identical game will give players any added value.

Gold and items are in MoBAs because WC3 used gold as a resource, and items were the best way to buff a character using the editor. Then these things kept being dragged along like vestigial limbs, even though an original game doesn’t need them, since you can program whatever you want. It only makes games last longer, which is also not a plus. I don’t want every game to last 40+ minutes.

It is not their only option by far. There are a LOT of MoBAS, including single player ones like Demigod.

Numbers show otherwise. LoL Wild rift is extremely popular. I don’t know why people assume that PC gamers don’t also play mobile games.

Don’t you guys have phones?

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I hate searching for games on Steam.

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How is it obvious?:

You could have played lots or not at all with your statement. It didn’t say “I moved from LOL” etc or anything to specify that HOTS was your first.


Anyway I digress, what I am getting at, these Free to play games IMO reward way more from playing lots (items but also knowledge) and IMO players tend to stay where they are comfortable.

If you had’ve played LOL lots, IMO you would have been the exception :stuck_out_tongue: the appeal of warcraft based characters might be nice but I don’t think it would force someone to change their play style or give up the knowledge they have put into the game.

This is why I don’t think a Warcraft/Blizz clone would have worked UNLESS it came out straight away.
I also do agree with you, I don’t think a Generic HOTS style MOBA would work UNLESS it came out straight away.

Overall I’d say having Warcraft characters would get more people in than it would loose back then. Not sure about if it was released now as theres been a lot more controversy lately that in this day and age the WC name might be tainted).

Edit: Basically my TLDR:
Either way the game came out way to late IMO to make a difference on the already established market.


My story (as I can remember it), if you'd like to know :p

Personally I tried HOTS when it first came out for a WOW mount but didn’t hook me and not sure it it was because I didn’t like MOBAs or something else (probably not interested in anything else but WOW)
Then 1 day I was bored during a forced break from WOW and tried out HOTS again (because the launcher was installed on my computer) and ended up enjoying it quite a bit. The warcraft characters might have helped the initial appeal (and was a less direct way to feed my WOW addiction) but had I installed LOL instead, we might not be having this convo
Despite me playing LOL and doing better there, I much prefer HOTS. I think the more “casual” team based game is much more entertaining but maybe I’m biased.

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I agree. That’s what it comes down too.
LoL does not translate very directly to HotS. You can make the change if you have some sort of vendetta against LoL, or all your friends changed to HotS. Otherwise, everything you’ve learned about MOBAs from LoL does not set you up to win, or even be a great help to your team in HotS all of the time.

Edit: Tee Hee. I forgot to finish my thought.
With that logic, only a reskin of LoL would make sense for this. If they tried to do something new, it would come across the same way as going from LoL to HotS.

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I came to HotS cause it was a game with all of the Blizz IPs I liked–my dad started playing cause he loves paladin (he was briefly an Uther OTP before deciding he disliked the game)

I stayed because its’ a deeply strategic and (more importantly) team oriented take on the MOBA genre that hasn’t really been repeated.

Your outline for a “new” Warcraft MOBA just sounds like a LoL reskin. I might recommend playing that instead (hell, if I didn’t already understand how horrible that game and community was, I’d try it too, Arcane was that awesome)

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sorry only Warcraft is just boring

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