Hi everyone,
based on a current thread, where Harbinger mentioned a nerf proposal for Medivac:
Is this strategy op and uninteractive that it needs nerfs? What do you think about it?
Make Keeps invulnerable when Forts arenât destroyed yet on the same lane.
Or remove coreâs invulnerability when buildings arenât destroyed. Anyway you can âcounter-playâ it (:
Simplest solution would be to prevent Medivac from being used near a live enemy fort or keep. As such they can only land some distance away which buys the defenders some time. Either that or a significant percentage health penalty on landing near such structures, so it is still viable for reinforcements but less viable for baneling drop style rushes.
3 Likes
Itâs not OP , just not fun to play against.
The slow build up time and the message âmedivac is readyâ is to prevent it becomming OP.
3 Likes
âFunâ is really subjective and I remember enough players mentioning the fitting phrase: âItâs not fun, if I lose toâ. But if I consider Sadius or DrSuperGoodâs comments I come up with the conclusion that itâs indeed op, because they admitted it indirectly with their suggestions.
It is a niche ult on a niche hero. How many times do you encounter juice pirates? 1 in 500 or less?
If the medivac changes like drsup suggest or any other way. it can become stronger and a valid option
I prefer a useable ult over a too niche but kinda fun
4 Likes
Indeed, so why do you even mention what Medivac needs to not be op or why do Sadius suggests to buff towers against this âniche strategyâ? Normally people do things like that, if they instinctively think about sth. that itâs op in their mind.
For that matter we have two heroic options instead of 1. So the players can decide, which strategy they want to go or fits the most in their matches. If an heroic ability doesnât work at all, then it needs buffs or a rework, but I donât see the case for Medivac though.
3 Likes
Itâs a meme strat. Considering you need at least Morales and Tyrael, two B tier heroes, youâre sacrificing quite a lot of your potential power for that cheese, which by the way requires you to commit to an extremely disadvantaged fight if intercepted. Basically youâre counting on your 5-man group to work together, not being too far behind in level, not staggering deaths, the enemy not reacting when they see the medivac popping up on minimap, getting the keep and not getting punished if you happen to fail.
Now on the flip side if youâre defending against juice pirates and you didnât ban either key heroes, didnât pick the counters, didnât try to establish early game lead and didnât look at minimap the entire game, then yes, I could believe you didnât have much fun in that game. Doesnât prove juice pirates is OP thoughâŚ
1 Like
If it was OP, everyone (smart) would be using it.
But why? It would make juice pirates easier to achieve. (Btw, whatâs the juice part about?)
Is there actually any advantage to destroying a keep first? Both get you catapults, but Iâd rather deny my enemy their fountain at the fort than at the keep.
You donât always need Tyrael, you can just build a team that burns structures fast. Especially if youâre not playing againt a coorditated team. Iâve done it with Anub, or you can even have ETC Mosh the enemy while you pound on their structure. Thereâs more than one way. The only hero thatâs a must is Morales.
1 Like
I think I have encountered more Aba/Zag backdoor comps back when it was still a thing then the pirate comp.
And those few times I had a pirate comp againts me they ended up failing hard and lost. They think randoms in QM are blind but most people have adapted to the cheese and will always go back and defend.
My last game againts a pirate comp I was already HS back to base when I saw the medivac message on my screen. Whole team landed right infront of our core and I cc them all to sleep with Malganis and put them into a giant wombo combo that killed them in sec when my team arrived just sec after I sleeped them.
2 Likes
Not necessarily honestly, because this strategy is so far from the norm; it has little to do with this games actual meaning of pitting skill vs skill in a team setting.
This strategy just relies on throwing yourself at structures.
You first of all would also need to convince your entire team to do this strategy and draft accordingly.
And then you need to⌠continue doing this strategy?
It might be fun the first time as a sorta âI canât believe this dumb strategy workedâ but itâs probably not that fun consecutively.
And as has been mentioned before, if you can see this strategy coming, then you can ban against it or draft against it yourself and prepare yourself.
A big strength of this strategy is just the fact that itâs unexpected.
1 Like
Which is an important lesson to be a better gamer to know, when can you sacrofice your life for sth. bigger. 
I doubt that, because this strategy is already well-known and almost none is surprised, if the Morales team with Tyrael go for it. But itâs rather that players donât know how to counter it and donât play properly against it, but not really because they donât know the strategy.
Thereâs a difference between a sacrificial play and a sacrificial overall strategy.
You can doubt it all you want mate.
It wasnât that long ago that we had someone complain about this strategy who definitely did not know about it.
Thatâs the thing. Itâs not a niche ult, never has been. If anything I consider stim drone much less flexible in its uses. You canât ever really guarantee there will be good AA synergy with your allies or even if theyâll utilize it. But you will always be able to shield yourself when dived on and move around the map.
Iâm almost primarily a Medivac user, even though I mostly solo queue because I KNOW I can get value out of it, and it allows me to be a lot more aggressive with healing because I have a shield/escape. The transportation was just a bonus. The added reinforcements in her rework is awesome to shuttle people quickly back to battle.
I donât know why Yusuke for some reason keeps fixating on JuicePirates when itâs so rare. And frankly, I loathe the strat because itâs a rather mindless way to play even if it can be effective, and this is coming from someone who has played at high level, who picks Morales often and almost exclusively picks Medivac. I love when people think Iâm trying to use some troll strat and think Iâm stupid when I pick Morales. And itâs like I couldnât give a ratâs behind about it, Iâm not suiciding into a keep or core.
1 Like
If something gives me a guaranteed 70%+ winrate. The fact that itâs the norm or not will not factor in my decision. I won a bunch of Silver games with Lava Wave Ragnaros, avoiding fights, thatâs not the norm. Nor is Soloing a core as ETC.
When something is OP, itâs either used or banned. Zagara was picked or Banned, so was Valla, and so were other heroes OP at launch. When a hero is strong because of a bug, thatâs not the norm, but people use them in QM even more.
Which means, if it is OP, it would show up a lot in organized play. When thereâs a tournament. Theyâre not concerned with whatâs fun. They just want to win. But itâs almost never used.
There is an absolutely massive difference between tournaments and regular players playing rankedâŚ
Have you ever tried Juice Pirates?
If not, why not?
Tried. Once.
And I hate it as much as Sgt. Hammer.
2 Likes
To me, that means making drastic changes is unneeded. If it were more common, I could see nerfs (like the old Zag/Abby backdoor strat), but even in QM where it would be far more problematic, I hardly ever see it. I actually like seeing my Morales take it, even when I am on an AA hero, because it adds a lot of flexibility to your teamâs strategy, and gives your entire team a way in or out to important objectives or other map resources. I view it similar to Medivh portals, in that it can be used offensively or defensively, and can enable an entire team if they are smart enough to take advantage of it.
Medivh is probably the #1 most frustrating hero to play against when his team is smart and he knows how to abuse portals, but facing a Medivh like that is rare enough I donât really think he needs nerfs.
Beside the point. If it is OP, why isnât it used in tournaments?
I already mentionned that I did.