The game currently teams up 4 and 5 stacks of any rank against any party of 2 filled with random, uncoordinated silvers and lower. Lots of ppl use this to exploit the game system.
Make a new rule:
4 and 5 stacks only get paired up against parties of their own size. Game takes too long to load? too bad. Size down your party or go play ranked. This way you prevent predetermined outcomes to games where you are just wasting everybody’s time. Including mine.
Once again. The game already does that. It pairs groups vs non-groups when no match can be made.
Nobody care about QM but the problem is even in ranked and no it really dont doing it. Its too often 5/4 stack vs duo+solos to not let wait the big stack.
I remember saying this years ago as it’s been horrible like this in ANZ for many moons, none seemed to care then so I wouldn’t hold your breath but take it from me… It’s only going to get worse 
So when did it end up being an exploit to team up in a team game ? And what stops you from teaming up with others yourself ? Alot of solo players team up with others in LFG. Those people with 80% winrate are mostly friends that only play the game at night when only rainbow games happens. They are the minority when it comes to 5 stacks. Most 5 stacks you will find are just randoms queing up together.
Wow, so even the “rule” has an exploit. Hear me out: maybe game should tell them no match can be made after 5 minute search, and tell them to queue in 4- party. Especially if they have a crazy winrate, like 80%+.
It’s not a rule if the premade abusers have each other on friends list, and queue at different times so they don’t get 5 premade vs 5 premade. A lot of them are actively avoiding each other.
It’s like believing “if Acti sent trolls a message after match that it’s not nice to feed in enemy gates repeatedly, they will definitely stop doing it”.
In terms of matches played, this is severe disinformation. With over 70% wr vs 4 stacks, 5 stacks are quite literally more often than not getting (causing) unfair games.
But here we go: the vast majority of players (non 5 stacks) should just suffer because the 5 stacks “have fun” by stomping in a low population game with bad matchmaking. It’s the fairest solution.
nah it’s always been this way helps the game stay toxic
And what solution do you sugggest ? You want people who team up to suffer the long que time just becasue solo players love to play the victim card ? What stops solo players from being cordinated themself ? What stops solo players from communicating with each other aswell ? And what do you suggest the matchmaker should do when playerbase is already as low as it can be ? You want it to drag ghosts out of the thin air for you just so you can get a balanced game which QM is not even labled as ?
Saying that 5 stacks are always in an much higher advantage then solos is a lie. This only happens because solo players are incable of communicating and making new strats as the game goes on. If it was not because that solo players keep playing the victim card then they might win more insteed of begging for the game to end at the smallest challange.
And again those who have 80% winrate are still the minority and yes they do suck to play against. But that does not mean the 90% who play 5 stacks casually and stil lhave 46% winrate should suffer from hour long que times just because the last 10% makes it bad for others.
By your logic then if i deciced to bring my fiends back into this game then we should all suffer from a 5 hour long que just to get one QM game. Does that sound fair for us ?
Again I (and probably everyone else) are against the huge winrate 5 premades that abuse the matchmaking, not the 5 premades that play once a week, made of random soloq players that befriended each other or irl friends. A 5 stack with 46% wr or 50% wr or 52% wr can find even 5 soloq players with average wr very close to the party’s. They also don’t rotate and kill the bronze 5 player on enemy team until they have 4 levels lead.
The 80%+ wr can just be told to queue as 4 (or less) or sit there until their fellow exploiter buddies decide to play with them instead of dodging them. Personally though, I’d go from lower than 80% though, I’d say being allowed to exploit up to only 65% is already rich, given we all preach 50% wr means we’re at our real level.
If your friends are top 1% players by actual skill and /or going to exploit the matchmaking (yrel + aba + sustain heroes without healer, or imperius/ uther no tank comps, dodging other 5 premades, list goes on) then, I’m afraid yes, you and your buddies should either queue as 4, or sit there with the rest of the cheaters until other cheaters decide to play with you. Yep, it’s very fair to you; go vs AI if you want to enjoy free win after free win. Queue as 5, stomp the bots until you get 100 kills 0 deaths each game to your heart’s content. Or, you queue as 4 party or less, so the other team doesn’t get an automatic loss.
If your friends are casual players that don’t start the game to win by cheating, you can play even vs 5 solos if similar winrate/mmr can be estabilished.
I suppose 1 thing that stops them is that solo players don’t pick the full team comp before match starts. Putting that aside, if the playerbase is so small, why do only some people have to suffer from it? Is the good players and cheaters teaming up against the worse players fairer than not abusing the matchmaker?
Why is a small minority “playing the victim card” (5 stacks with huge winrate) valid, but everyone else “playing the victim card” is not?
As for what I suggest; I said in another thread. I’d say a personal winrate cap to 5 premades (60%+ players can’t queue in 5 prems, for example, if they played more than 10-15 games with players, not AI, and aren’t already marked as 5-stackers). Also a party- winrate cap: if you played 10 games with same 4 other people in premade, and have over 80% wr, you’re each marked (without knowing) as 5-stack abusers. This marker serves to quickly eliminate smurfing as a solution to my previous idea; if they play y games with a fresh account (lvl 50-) and they win over 50% of them, that account is marked as 5-stack abuser too. I’d say y being 2-3 games is a healthy number (Doubtful a new player would suddenly find a 5 premade and magically play the game at their skill level, unless it’s a smurf).
To those that probably check all my comments for ‘Gotcha’ moments, and are going to say I say different numbers every time: the numbers are just initial ideas, up for discussion. The point is the general idea.
Every so often I’m in a QM game were its obvious the team we are playing against is organized and definitely not an MMR match.
It’s frustrating for sure, but I think its more frustrating that my team can’t hold it’s own in a game that most of my teammates have been playing for a decade.
HotS isn’t rocket science. Soak lanes. Go to objective. Help your teammates when they are in a fight. Don’t chase. I see a lot of player who just refuse to engage in the basics.
You should be able to coordinate with your team well enough that you don’t need to be in a chat with them.
I always tell my teammates “If you can’t win as 3/4 ranged assassins, maybe a bruiser and a random healer vs imperius, kerrigan, alarak, bw, nazeebo, you’re just not deserving decent games in hots at all”, but they never pull themselves up by the bootstraps 
. This community is so entitled.
Premades would be expected to wait a little longer, but definitely nowhere close to an hour. If they’re allowed to plow through randoms like a combine through a wheat field, then I don’t really see a problem at all with teams being forced to play other teams more frequently. You choose how you play and it this does not need to happen at the expense of random solo player experience.
If you believe me finding four other randoms in general chat can match five friends accustomed to playing with each other for years on end somehow increases my chances of winning, then I wouldn’t really call two full premades with an average mmr difference of 200 points bad matchmaking either.
So instead of making hundreds of players miserable over a single evening, you’d be encountering the same teams constantly. Even if one of the teams is drastically better than the others, I’m sure you can find a way to beat them with some “communication”.
If you are afraid of fair competition we can ask Blizzard to mask player names so you never know who your opponent is. That way this handful of teams wouldn’t be able to instantly identify a weak link between matches and capitalize on it early game.
Since randoms aren’t allowed to know when they’re playing a premade I’m sure not knowing which specific team you are playing against while queueing with a group of friends would do wonders for group morale just as well.
Sure, with consistent matchmaking where everyone is equally experienced and understands higher concepts, but when you spot one player running across the map instead of trading Fort for Fort in an uncontested lane or similar situations, that’s a timebomb waiting to explode and if I don’t call out bad decision making, someone else will fully unload on that player ten minutes later. For all its simplicity, Hots is a very dynamic game where hero power differential shifts around multiple times as levels increase so a duel can play out in 4 different ways by the time you even reach level 16.
RT vs AT fairness aside, this type of matchmaking is the primary reason why players are so horrible to each other and unfortunately I don’t have access to their profile at the time, but maybe if I had access to more information in that moment I would choose my words more carefully. Often I am/was deprived even of account levels because like everyone else I wait alt-tabbed for match to start.
It’s not an exploit. If you team up with 4 other people, almost all your games will be against other teams, except when the game can’t find one. The team has no control over this.
I don’t think any multiplayer game would ever tell people to split their team. ANd very few team would have a win rate of 80%.
You’re never going to be able to garantee that you don’t face another team. Especially since the game is trying to match you against one .
This.
It’s not an exploit. It’s the ONLY way to play HotS and have a constant good experience without trolls, flamers, afks and griefers.
In fact if I can, I even avoid 4 stacks now since I play the game so little and am mentally exhausted from years of enduring those players.
I noticed even in 4 stacks, about half the time the solo keeps disconnecting or is some kind of a troll. Shut them out completely by playing as 5.
I only bother going solo in aram. Otherwise 5 stack. Even a random 5 stack from party finder or gen chat is fine.
Wow, that sounds like there’s no problem. Oh wait… they get matched about 80% of games vs non 5 premades, and have huge average winrate even vs 4 premades. Then the exploiters avoid other exploiters, so even of the 20% or so of games they play vs 5 premades, they abuse even the 50% wr 5 premades.
Also, lolwut “the teams have no control over this”. Maybe you should send a ticket to blizzard, if someone is getting forced to play 5 premade against weaker opponents 80% of games. I am sure they wouldn’t intentionally play at an advantage, abusing the matchmaking.
https://www.heroesprofile.com/Global/Party?timeframe_type=major&timeframe=2.55&game_type=qm
No, they’d make 2 separate queues, solos shouldn’t ever get matched vs 5 premades (LoL does solo/duo queue and all size parties separately). But if we blame the small community for not being able to do this, and for the bad matchmaking, I’d say we can very well tell exploiters their fun isn’t worth more than the fun of everyone else.
Also most matches played by 5 premades are with 5 premades with huge winrates (since their average is so high against all 4- stacks and solos, and most of their games are vs those).
Seems I have to say this, since some people already played victim, and I forgot to mention: this isn’t soloq vs parties (aka “just make some friends”). This is non-5 premades and 5 premades that don’t break the matchmaking (over 70% of matches played, I’d say - this number representing only the non-5 stacks-, and probably over 90% of players) vs 5 premade abusers.
My bad, since they don’t have 100% winrate, I think 80% is very healthy for the community, especially since every soloq player I seem to find in qm has 46%-52%. 
Tell me, are you one of those 5 premades playing with high winrate players? Because it does look like that, when you’re trying to justify some people breaking the matchmaking with “they can’t cheat into 100% win chance” and “there’s others that aren’t cheating”. It’s like…not even related. Just say you like it as it is 
. I wasn’t advocating for removing 5 premade, just telling the huge winrate ones that no fair game could be made for them, so they should queue 4-. And then making a few filters to autoflag smurf accounts for 5 premades, so no one abuses 5 premade matchmaking anymore.
While I like this in theory. I don’t think it would work until they sort out the smurf issue
I dodged one team with a 100% win rate today to get hit by another 5 stack with 1 loss out of ~8 played
Same. I think it would be impossible to give new accounts at most 10 games with older 5 stacker accounts in 5 premades, then if they win 50%+ games, mark them as smurfs and don’t allow them to play 5 premade.
What if the new account was a natural-born hots grandmaster? You just can’t know that a new account playing at upper skill levels + abusing the matchmaking, playing in 5 premade with high wr 5-stack (notorious for picking only the best of the best) is a smurf.
Good ol skill issue complaints.
You’re correct for the most part. There are the rare five stack who really do have inflated win rates, that are far above average, and draft something like Imp/Yrel as off main tank and other tricks to exploit how roles are sometimes unevenly mirrored in QM.
The thing is, it’s still rare (in my experience) to encounter 5 stacks of that kind. The majority of five stacks I encounter are just friends of average skill (and average win rates) playing together, and aren’t all that hard to beat if your team of random’s has some basic coordination.