I understood why no one plays this game

General Discussion
22

That’s where your account settles, if you had a higher winrate, you’d eventually be on course to be #1 eventually. And we can’t all be #1, can we?

When you start a new account, your winrate will be higher, and eventually settle as you get around the range of players with similar skill level, and as you get to the rank you should be at, you’ll eat as many wins as losses. The only thing that breaks this is increase in skill level. But I can find 7-8 year accounts, with players who have 2000+ player levels and every hero unlocked, and they’re comfortable in Silver, Gold, Plat, where they belong.

The fact that most players have close to a 50% win-rate, shows the matchmaking is actually working. The real issue is the Queue times, and that’s just a shrinking playerbase, and stagnation in the higher ranks.

2 Likes
23
  1. It’s not something that needs explaining. Even 8+ games which we call “streaks” are tiny in the actual string of outcomes that form statistics. And you don’t need outside force to replicate such things. Take a coin and flip it many times, eventually you’ll see patterns, which are as fake as the ones you see in your match history.
  2. It’s not a fact. You just claimed it out of the blue, with no proof. Ppl who can climb, won’t face lose streaks after win streaks, they might lose a few and then win a lot more again.
  3. Win streaks are an achievement and not eniterly easy to create, but lose streaks are pretty easy on the other hand, because ppl get tired, lose focus, make more mistakes and they can even rile up themselves. And if someone is frustrated, their performance is lower than with a cold head. Pair this with the increased mmr they got from the winstreak and now there’s a logical and not unfair gap between their performance and the skill lvl required from them at that mmr range.

A baseless claim again.

You say no one agrees with us, but it’s pretty hard to get 10000+ posts, which proves our unique individuality. Meanwhile getting less than 100 is super easy barely an inconvinence, and thus it more likely to be alts of the same ppl.
Your posts aren’t really liked at all, yet you delude yourself with being the majority. You, who is probably already just an alt of someone else.

Another baseless claim. You don’t know nor proved that what kind of percentage is “at 50%” or near that (whatever you’ll claim and set as your first boundaries).

But even if you’re right, and most ppl are around 50% winrate, Masters having 50% winrate and Silvers having 50% winrate indicates, that there are no forced losses.
Like your point is seemingly that climbing does not exist, which is so ridiculous because many of the “10000+” folks actually did climbed many divisions and even ranks. Like just because you’re stuck and make mental gymnastics about why you’re actually better than what you are, you won’t be right.

But your pathetic attempt to act big and discredit ppl are already more than enough proof for your cognitive dissonance at work. So have a cookie and a nice day. Deep down you know you’re wrong :smiley:

24

because there’s only two options: winning and losing. Even a ‘draw’ will map to one or the other. Flip a coin, map the series of runs and then compose an essay how the coin is ‘rigged’ when you get a series of heads or tails.

Watch some pro games: they’ll have blow-out streaks of win/lose against a better team, or upsets will pull a reverse sweep. The ‘top’ players don’t even win every single time.

This is a game where people think the mini-map is DLC, that landing a skillshot is a ‘try hard’ and soaking exp is tantamount to cheating. I could post links to pages for people that have dissected the game and looked at comparison for mmr, appraised how blizz came to the conclusion that their changes made ‘closer games’ (if you read devnotes when patches happened) and there are reasons you don’t see the composed data-mining players whistle-blowing the game or raising flags on how manipulative the system is personally out to get anyone that happens to be slightly above 50% on their ranked winrate.

I could also point out how the anecdotal accounts are logical-fallacies for fear-mongering by neglecting that either the reverse doesn’t happen, or rather, that the other side has a similar case matched, but they don’t care about that when it’s their side that lost a “fair” game.

Many competitive games don’t have some malicious or ‘forced’ win/lose system, it has players that are inconsistent at playing the game and refuse to consider self-reflection as a variable at hand. They are the type of players that get stuck, ignore all advise to help them ‘climb’ and disregard all evidence contrary to the rant they want to make because they’re already convinced of a boogie man rigging the games they get.

If a system has ‘skill’ and winners move up the ranks, then math is going to push winrates closer to 50% over time because skill-levels plateau and the game doesn’t offer enough incentive for even the best of players to play at their peak game-after-game after game.

Some players get tilted, some troll a bit too hard, some don’t care if they lose; some don’t get to play the hero that reflects their current ‘mmr’, and so on. Most changes to the actual mmr are small changes, so players are more likely to encounter ‘more of the same’ when they’re playing a series of games because the people in those matches are doing similar things.

MMR doesn’t know if someone is drunk, high, barely lost, won a hard-fought game, or a number of other attributes people with associate to the anthropromorphication they have created from a system that sorts numbers.

That’s part of why professional athletics have coaches, advisors, and other people to get players out of their own heads, stop repeating the same mistakes, and reflect on past performance to improve their perspective on the next game.

1 Like
25

Guys, it’s even embarrassing for me to answer you, you’re really making an effort to explain something to me. But if your game is so cool and has an “absolute balance”, why does no one play it and most players quit it?
This did not happen in recent years, not 3-4 years ago, but immediately after the release, and after Hots 2.0.

If everything that I described does not exist, why can I calmly find a huge number of posts and articles about exactly the same moments, literally repeating my description verbatim, back in 2015-2016?

People tried it, saw it, understood it and didn’t like it.

Therefore, no one is playing your game: because of the lack of balance between groups and random, because of the system that levels you at 50% win rate (there is no such win rate in any game), where in most cases you do not solve anything (there are no such indicators anywhere else), and because the game is much less friendly to solo players than to teams of 5 people, although 99% of the audience of any moba are solo players.

Not because blizzard stopped funding your game - she stopped doing it after she saw the indicators that people don’t play it (most likely for these reasons, as you understand) and leave, but HGC matches, where a team lagging behind by 4 levels can win 1 fight in the end and demolish core for 2 minutes - also no one watched for this reason - because it is absurd, illogical and DISAPPOINTING.

You can at least become a writer in the answers to my questions and say how you are actually right, this will not fix the fact that since 2015, players have been sharing their real gaming experience with you, and you ignored it and put skins and lish together. Everyone did the opposite.

Once again, the game is absolutely deservedly dead.

Its target audience is 5 well-assembled players with discord, the whole gameplay was designed for this, a calculation was made to row profits from esports on the wave of Dota 2 hype. But even on the screen, all the disadvantages of this approach surfaced.

You have nothing to object to, this is what happened and for what reason it all happened.

In the end, what am I crucifying here: the game officially closed by 90% only 2 years after its release in 2018. What am I talking about here at all, investors and the company itself saw all this 6 years ago and realized that this is the game and this is its engine and it’s not so easy to change it and money is needed for this.

I consider further conversation pointless.

26

On the contrary if it was gold plat then our system would be horrendous with a lot of good points to back it up, thankfully silver is higher.

See OW2 new disproportion system, it’s so bad.

1 Like
27

You can even find the exact same about the games that are popular. This is the biggest fact you choose to ignore on purpose.
This game has the exact same complains as all the competition. So those complains cannot be the reason for its downfall.
The second most glaring fact you ignore on purpose is that the game was doing fine, while the company and the Diablo franchise did not, and they chose to sacrifice HotS for those, because they messed up its monetization big and they realised it never will be the no1 moba. Which btw should’ve never been a goal.

Again with the cognitive dissonance-fueled fake big-talk attitude :smiley: it’s as cute as sad.

28

My guess would be that there isn’t a forced 100% win rate,

Thank goodness!

Good idea to quit asking about the moronic idea of a forced 50% win rate. “Cool” and “‘absolute balance’” have nothing to do with that.

So nobody’s playing the game, except that there are enough teams of 5 people to drive away the solo players that aren’t playing even though the teams of 5 players lose 50% of the time?

Hmmm . . .

3 Likes
29

I’ve told you everything. The fact that you are 5 people and you can like each other, unfortunately, will not change history. You can do it as much as you want.

Whether you want it or not, the players have been writing the same thing to you for 8 years, and you have been doing what you continue to do now - passing off the desired 5 people as reality for everyone else, and not looking at the problem and denying it.

What did it lead you to?

Facts and facts again, you can pick up and find everything yourself - only this plays a role, and not your beliefs “how in your opinion a good game should actually look like”, even when it completely failed because of them.
bb

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Dissonance.
Copium.
Delusion.
Denial.

Have nice day :smiley:

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I replied to you in a measured way, and I agreed with many of your complaints and added in a few of my own.

What I didn’t agree with is your notion of a forced 50%, I can’t agree with that as I have seen many players far over 50%wr and many players far below it.

That above is an anecdotal argument, which was deliberate, as you are making the same anecdotal argument to assert “forced 50%” is real.

I’ve given a few likes, but I haven’t received them, so that blows your other theory out of the water too.

32

It doesn’t. What people commonly reply to on these forums are people spouting misinformation and then trying to use that as rationalization for lying and quitting. Games aren’t going to have ‘absolute balance’ because free-will exists and cusses like you have the ability to ruin the game for yourself with incorrect information.

Again, ‘normal’ players in this game think that basic play is basically cheating. You are the sort of player that denies information, asserts absurd claims, and does not improve because you think some boogie man is out to get you. Also, you think not providing proof is somehow providing proof.

It’s 'embarrassing" for you to answer because you are posting embarrassing things. You haven’t debunked what has been written, you aren’t proving what you are suggesting. What you asserting is a crappy Reductio ad absurdum by claiming Straw man of things people didn’t actually post. You are having a conversation with yourself and pretending that your garbled sentences aren’t a language barrier for you. It’d almost like responding to someone asserting the Earth is flat, but even some of those have 'oops-ed themselves into realizing their position actually ends up proving them wrong, and then they have to grandstand on a double-take instead.

You are trying to argue circular reasoning by taking the state of the game having reduced players to thus ‘prove’ that anachronistic information must therefore be complete. Starting with the claim you want to make and then asserting you can find conformation bias is not ‘proof’ of the claim. That same conduct also can be seen to influence how you play the game, which is part of why you keep looking for things to fault with it instead of asking how to make better use of what actually exists.

Or ya know, claiming you could do things that you don’t.

You’re convinced that the opposite of what you assert must be an absurd claim, which indicates you’re just putting forth a loaded question and then demanding people defeat absurdity that they aren’t actually posting. Your conduct is ‘illogical’ and you are faulting ghosts of conversations made to act like you made a valid point.

You want to assert you have ‘proof’ of finding things that agree with you?

https://heroeshearth.com/b/ghostdunk/read/what-statistcs-and-machine-learning-can-teach-us-about-the-gameplay-changes-in-heroes-of-the-storm/

Here’s a long article of graphs by Ghostdunk that was shared by Shardfenix on one of his 20,000 alt accounts of the same name. Shard is also a conspiracy nut and he took the information of that article as ‘proof’ for an assertion that doesn’t hold up to his claim. Ghost’s article, for tl;dr, comes to the conclusion that the changes made to the game (things you assert that haven’t changed) does make for ‘good’ matchmaking because the system does what it intended to do: provide a “fair” match where each side has a 50% chance to win. (However, much like with Dota 2, the illiterate portions of the gamebase seem to think having a "50 chance* must mean the game “forces” wins and loses in fallacious reasoning.)

Shard took the 50% analysis to mean the game can’t predict who wins instead of concluding that the game doesn’t actually make rigged matches; by providing the 50% change for either side to win, it makes the game “fair”. Granted, Ghost thinks that reverting the game to an older state would have had the same ‘fair’ adjustment and made for better game “feel”, but that’s also an anachronistic assertion that assumes present gameplay would retroactivity adjust to the previous changes despite meta, hero pool, and other mechanics having changed since 2017 as lane formations would not revert to 2017 even if the rest of the game did.

If you provide links for what influenced your perspective, then you’re probably going to get people that point out where you’re cherry-picking, drawing wrong conclusions and conflating information because you already thought the ‘game deserved to die’ likely because you keep looping the conduct of chronic complainers that’d rather conspiracy rant how a game is bad rather than own up and realize it’s easier to just fault a game instead of learn how to play it.

It’s a ‘meme’ for what sort of players keep on trying to fault matchmaking. Pointing out people are riling up on incorrect information doesn’t mean the game is magical and perfect, it just means that playerbase is that low on actually knowing how to play the game. It’s almost like there’s some sort of correlation between people that don’t like to lose at games also not liking to lose as arguments.

They’d rather quit and find something to blame instead of looking to improve their conduct and claim.

1 Like
33

Is your goal here to convince people that enjoy the game that they shouldn’t enjoy the game and quit it because to you it isn’t good?

Why should I quit if I find it fun? I understand sometimes it bothers me the way some things are, but at the end of the day I return to play because I have a good time. If I didn’t enjoy it, I wouldn’t play it.

If your goal is to make people quit the game because you think its dead or bad, you’re not going to be very successful. If someone genuinely enjoys this game its going to be very difficult to change their mind without making an impact of their reinforcement when they play the game, which won’t happen because of what someone says in this forum.

5 Likes
34

Everything you’ve written here is just your subjective point of view and doesn’t make any real sense. You may work in the field of psychology, but those people don’t say much of anything, so - you say even less, blah blah blah it’s called. There is no rebuttal to what I have said in your speeches, nor any evidence that I am wrong.

Whereas I provided you with facts: players were leaving, along the way writing their feelings about the game - I’ve seen and read it all, you can find the same articles from 2015 talking about all the same problems they have now. Players were giving the developers a chance to get it right - they didn’t care what they were saying or what the math was really like there, refuting their real game experience that they encountered every God damn day.

They were saying what they really felt playing the game - and that experience is priceless and is the only true indicator of what the game feels like during gameplay and how it really works for most players, not “what the developers think.”

This is now called “big data”, which I can get from this forum if I work hard enough, and which has real value, unlike what you claim, because it doesn’t matter what’s behind the scenes or what math is there, it matters what’s on stage and how it really works.

They neglected it as much as you do now, and failed by losing their own game, and now you’re sitting here doing exactly the same thing. A fact? Fact.

And let me tell you something more about facts then:

Your team has exactly the same loosestricks during loosestricks - anyone can look it up and find evidence of that. Fact? Fact.
After a series of wins they start giving you weaker players and higher-skilled opponents to level you dawn, the hidden pool system works in the worst way, as it should only level up smurfs. Fact? Fact.
Does this mean that the system manipulates matches, leading you to a 50% win rate, pulling up the weaker players and putting down the stronger ones? Fact? Fact.
The ranking system has a brutal abuse system that allows groups and smurfs to do whatever they want, not to mention broken mmr. Fact? Fact.
Groups are perfectly fine destroying randoms and are not penalized for it in all game modes. Fact? Fact.
For a long time, Hots has encouraged legal ranking abuses and encouraged smurfing. Fact? Fact.
Reporting system is not checked in any way - bans are given by robot, after a certain amount is accumulated. Fact? Fact.
This way we can not guarantee a fair ban. Fact? Fact.
For a long time they used to ban unwanted players on the forum and delete their posts if they wrote something like that. Fact? Fact.

And so on and so forth. There’s a lot more I could throw in here, just tell me.

Now i want to talk about you, how you seem to really think you’re smart and how wrong you really are.

You know that there is also an eu server, right?
You also probably know that there are 10 times more players on it than on us, right?
I bet you also know that the overall level there is a lot higher and that going from bronze to master (using all the abusive stuff Blizzard lets me do and even encourages me to do) on us server is not a big deal, while on eu it’s a real achievement.
Because silver on eu is platinum on us.

Now, if you really think that 10 times as many players can be wrong about their gaming experience, and they somehow amazingly wrote about the same problems and also, suddenly, from 2015, right after the release of the game, gave the facts, prufs on the patent Activision Blizzard, here’s an example dude, check it out:

[US20160001181A1 - Matchmaking system and method for multiplayer video games - Google Patents](h ttps://patents.google.com/patent/US20160001181A1/en)

only 10 times more. Then I think you have a problem, because on the eu server all have long recognized already. Especially I can confirm it, playing in this game for 7 years in all modes and ranks, using the whole abuse system.

You think I don’t know what I’m talking about? You really need to shove your ego to far away and at the same time open your eyes, because I went through all this and know all the abuse ways and everything I said here - the truth, even pruf 1 of many provided you, study it.

My only complaint is that I can’t figure out with my brain how a company like Blizard (2015 y) could really sit on their bud for 8 years and really just write a ton of text denying all these things, just like you are now, and not fix them.

This is an unprecedented case in gaming practice if you look at it from afar.

And yes, you’re right, it’s really not my native language dude, but the problem is that English is my third language, if you want I can explain all this to you in German and even in one that you can’t imagine, but for you I’m sure it’s the only one in your life and all you do is sit on a forum and deny facts when they’re shoved up deep to … shown to your face. I’ve been playing this “game” for 7 years and I’m not sure (to put it mildly) that you can say anything to me about it when I’ve been through all the stages of abuse and ranks.

No negativity buddy, but that’s what you really do.

Well let’s see what you have to say about that.

35

I once had loosestricks, but I took some Immodium, and that helped.

I wish my dawn were leveled. I’m getting tired of those low-ranked sunrises.

But now, to the meat of it:

Which of these is true?

They are mutually exclusive.

Either groups win whenever they want, or they are forced to lose when they win too much.

You cannot have both simultaneously.

By your own argument, they are wrong, because they didn’t leave because of the terrible things Blizzard does.

On that, we definitely agree.

That’s a big problem, then. Quit quoting articles from languages in which you are clearly not proficient enough to even check your own grammar and spelling. The odds of you being able to understand the articles enough to form an appropriate reaction, let alone translate it into a tertiary language, are extremely low.

36

Did you really cut a few completely useless lines out of my entire text just to point out to me, like a little girl, something that has nothing to do with the topic? That was pathetic. Well.

I think that’s not the only thing you use.

Groups should play with groups, the developers themselves said that it would upset the balance if they met with solo players

Nope, that’s why they went away. Did you read my text well? Maybe you need to improve your English.

Once again, it’s pathetic

I don’t think I have much less command of the language than you do. But I clearly have more, which in the long run would give me an advantage over you, one way or another. I don’t think there’s any point in discussing it further with you, especially since I didn’t ask you. Bye

37

I actually cut most of the completely useless lines out of your entire text. I preserved a few for commentary.

Irrelevant. You claim a forced 50% win rate and also claim that groups always win. One of the two is true, and one is false. Make up your mind which one you are lying about.

Either EU has 10 times more players than the US does, or they went away. It’s once again your choice which one you’re lying about. If the EU players didn’t go away, then it wasn’t Blizzard’s policies that destroyed the US market. If they did go away, then you’re lying about how many people are on EU.

Your choice, but either way, you’re lying.

I’m certain you don’t think a lot of things, but that’s irrelevant. Please specify which of your above points are true and which ones you were lying about, because they are contradictory.

1 Like
38

The ability for you to not-read does not mean ‘evidence’ doesn’t exist.

How about I do you one better: a “FACT” is something that has been proven to be true. You have not provided proof for what you claim as a “fact” nor do you seem to be aware of what actually makes a “fact”.

Here’s a fun fact: before you brought up patent US20160001181A1, I said

Good job, you’re spouting more of the tin-foils rants that other people keep repeating. The patent is another of those are unsubstantiated theories generally posted by people that are bad at the game, and just looking for something else to blame. You have been posted stuff that demonstrates you are incorrect because you keep on repeating lies and conspiracy theories uninformed players keep repeating.

In a statement, Activision confirmed that this patent was only “exploratory,” and such a system has not been used in any games.

“This was an exploratory patent filed in 2015 by an R&D team working independently from our game studios. It has not been implemented in-game,” a spokesperson for Activision said.

Additionally, Bungie community manager David “Deej” Dague confirmed on Twitter, “None of this functionality appears in Destiny.”

While having a ‘spokesperson’ doesn’t mean they weren’t lying, there’s something important to understand about the patent: a patent does not require any code. For this to be a game, people would have to do something specific and not post a bunch of words to describe how something might function.

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/heroes/search?q=patent%20%40Xenterex-1540

Have a list of all the times I keep debunking the ‘patent’ concern for people that

  1. don’t know what a patent is used for (not for code)
  2. haven’t realized that patent was debunked
  3. that it’s an Activision patent, Blizzard has their own listings so if you were as set on “facts” as you so claim, you’d used an example of their patents instead.

It’s a similar affair with your other “facts”. You aren’t posting facts, older participants have been responding to these for years, and despite how much you “read” you clearly haven’t read the topics were people outlined the faults with these claims.

A lot of this stuff would have likely have been called out by dataminers if this stuff were true. Yea, one can’t actually “prove a negative” but you also aren’t providing “proof” and you don’t seem to understand the implications of the lack of your “proof” despite you constantly claiming you have a “fact” that is little more than a complaint someone posted.

The ability for people to complain does not mean that they actually said something ‘true’. If you want more specifics on actual ‘proof’ on why it’s low-tier unskilled complainers that keep on repeating the stuff you call a “fact” then there are people that can provide more particulars, especially when trying to help people actually improve at a game.

However, if you’re just going to act like ignorance is empowering yourself, then you’re going to have just as bad a gameplay experience on the next “dead” game that you think “Deserves to die” because a key part of people actually doing well a game is being knowledgable of that game.

Spouting the ghost stories of hard-stuck bronze players is how you do badly a game, and people that do badly at games think the game should ‘die’ because some people think the whole universe has to change before they consider personal accountability.

1 Like
39

Very in vain, because either you have M.S. and are asking me the same questions, or you don’t read English very well. Maybe I could write for you in German?

Besides the fact that you didn’t read my text well, you also have logic problems. I wrote that the 50% system can only be broken by playing in a pack of 5 - that’s why they beat everyone most of the time. Feel the construct of logic? How are they mutually exclusive?

Again, I think you might have ADHD or you’re really just dumb. If you had read my text, you would have understood.

Let’s go over it again. There are obviously 10 times more players on eu, but the total number of players from all servers decreased enough because of Blizzard’s actions, so much so that the algorithms of the game did not work properly and the situation got even worse. I think you still have a problem with understanding simple information.

Yes, well I will say. I think you should see a doctor - he can tell you where the lies are in your life. :smile:

40

At this point, the forums don’t need Mod’s, they need a Psychologist in residence.

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41

If writing in German would help you read what you yourself actually wrote, then by all means use it. While this is the "US forums’ that is particular to certain forms of “English”, regardless of language, writing and talking are not the same medium. Maybe you’re better composed orally, or in other languages (as English is terrible) but there are dropped/wrong words that shift some of the meaning of what you may intend to have written and some people here are far more adept at other languages than just the assumed norm for Blizzard’s home turf.

If your written has problems, then people are going to assume the content of what you likely meant, and frankly, they’re probably not going to be wrong on that. You aren’t complaining about anything new, and you’re not providing additional insight or… dare I say, any actual proof of these complaints. It’s treatment you’re already doing to them, so it’s likely you also do it for what you yourself also write.

You’re evidently not interested in actually seeing these claims validated, or proof of the reverse. You are demonstrably not reading something through, and instead you’re just blaming other people for disagreeing with you. Instead of proving “proof” now you’re resorting to insults.

Your conduct on the forums likely does reflect some of how you compose yourself in your games, so if you actually look to have a better time in this game – for whatever reason you keep playing it despite yourself – you’re going to want do change something on your end instead of faulting any and everything else over and over.

People break the “50% forced” winrate through a variety of means, and it is not strictly by 5-stacks. You evidently haven’t seen how these players play, and climb and instead, you’ve fallen into a loop of ignorance that assumes that others that are more successful than you are must do so by ‘cheating’

I wasn’t kidding when it’s regarded that inexperienced and less skillful players resort to claiming that basic play in this game is tantamount to cheating. There are loads of topics of people making the same fault-finding claims that all assert the game has to be “50% forced winrate”, and those are the types of players that refuse to ask for help, look over replays, put in the effort to prove a claim, and assert they have “facts” by posting falsehoods.

This is years old of stuff and it seems it hasn’t occurred to you that other people have noticed these things, and they decided to act for themselves to improve what they can, instead of becoming a chronic complainer.

1 Like