How is Zul'jin ATM? ( small changes myb? )

General Discussion
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Since I don’t play anymore, i’m concerned about how he has been recently, though looking at recent patches and the forums in general i cant really find anything related to him other than the new lvl 20 which i mean i think the devs can do alot better, and when i left the game i remember Zul’jin was not meta ( unless ur in an ARAM, then hes a boss ).

Which is leading me to believe that ZJ can use something extra.

When I say that a hero needs something “extra” i don’t mean a game-changing buff. It can range from a new talent, which might not even AFFECT ZJ’s popularity, to a small number change or 2. For now at least until more data is observed with the popularity of ZJ.

With medallion, hes now a TON better due to the fact he can dish out more dmg with 1 second unstoppable. but if I were to make a small change, it would probs be something LIKE medallion, that is a talent, or something he begins the game with, OR it can be tied to his slot 1 ability that halves his health.

Maybe its like a change to his quest. maybe make the rewards BETTER but increase the amount of AA required. there are so many unique and fresh ideas that can be implemented on ZJ which is why I think it would be a good experiment to see how it affects his pick rate and win rate.

why i want these “extra” things for ZJ in particular is because hes in my top 5 most favourite heroes, and I GENUINELY think his kit, despite it just being about basic AAs, is incredibly interesting.

I also firmly think that he is at the higher skill floor than other heroes, YES it seems like mindless AA but it takes some amount of thought to know how to throw guillotine, when to go full berserk, know the good talents and trap talents, and know when its time to engage/disengage.

Its just that you must play him really well to reap some amount of rewards, and i REALLY don’t mind that ( you literally have to know half of what I know to be decent with Ragnaros since 80% of the playerbase don’t even KNOW what hes used for )

but ZJ feels different. it feels like you must know 75% of his kit, to be good with him which I think is too much. even aba players don’t need that much knowledge of aba to be decent.

Im sorry if ZJ is actually meta and i’m just too detached from the game and i wasted your time btw. But what do you think?

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I don’t get this logic

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like… I care about the game but i don’t play anymore.

its NOT:

“BECAUSE i left the game i’m concerned”

its because:

“I liked ZJ before, but BECAUSE I left, im concerned about how hes been since IDK”

its like youre checking up on an old relative basically. i’m not checking on them because i LEFT, im checking because i care about them but do not have the close contact with them to know how they have been.

hope i made it clear xd

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Forum doesn’t want to tinker with heroes if they’re balanced

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ZJ is currently a pretty solid pick overall. He doesn’t have the safe PvE damage of other AA heroes, such as Valla, Greymane, Raynor. You see him as often as Falstad and Lunara, and much more often then rarities like Hammer and Tychus.

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you don’t play but you wanna know how Zul’jin is doing? is he your friend or somethin

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I dont believe in balance. in fact, I dont even think it works.

in hearthstone, cards are BALANCED in hopes they will become used more once a card is released later on that HELPS the regular card. balanced cards in HS are NEVER played if you’ve noticed unless they become OP through association with a good combo or an OP card. ( hope you understood BTW )

Apply this logic to heroes and well it doesn’t work because there are not enough heroes ( 86 to like 3000 cards i think ). so instead, we have something called META!. meta is when a hero becomes more exploited or buffed to a point they are better than average. average, is BAD. nobody will play an average card. nobody plays an average hero ( unless theyre fun or they are pros so thats a WHOLE different story )

if a new player gets the choice of playing either ETC or stitches as a tank, they will pick ETC because hes “S- tier” and stitches is bad. it is TECHNICALLY the same with ZJ and another “meta” hero. you can get good with ZJ and become pro but the point is you can also make him meta for a while since hes so intresting

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Why he’s not generally a meta hero in higher play:

  • If you’re on too high HP you deal little damage
  • If you’re on too low HP you get blown up by cc chains and burst damage instantly (hanging around on 40% hp just isn’t smart for any reason)
  • No mobility
  • Channeled clunky sustain

I love playing him in Aram. But I do also understand why higher tier sl, tournaments etc. rarely see Zuljin picks.

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Zul’jin is in a pretty good state. At most, he could use some minor numbers buffs, but he doesn’t need them.

All 3 of his builds are viable and worth picking depending on the situation.
Guillotine is pretty niche, but just that’s because it requires so much skill to use properly, not because it’s too limited by situation.
Aside from Forest Medicine and A Surprise for Ya, none of his talents really stand out as being too underwhelming.

tl;dr, Zul’jin is well-designed and well-rounded, and my only complaint with him is his level 20 tier.

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and you expect me to shy out and say “no, no”? well YES, he IS my friend and there’s nothing wrong with a checkup every while. is that a sin :stuck_out_tongue: ?

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I feel like he’s okay at my level of play (higher gold to low plat currently) but once you go past that he is just so easily countered and such a one trick pony people wont let him deal any AA damage.

And balancing damage versus survivability is so hard with him.

I like how you can pick all 3 builds and they are viable though. I wouldn’t buff him since gladiators medal might make him much more fun to play now, no instant death in storm league by premades if they decided to pile stuns and roots on you.

Also, sniping aba from behind gates with guillotine is awesomely fun.

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Comparing RNG card game with MOBA game with almost 0 RNG. What is wrong with you?

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Im messing with you :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Zuljin is good vs slow damage comp, but bad vs a burst comp, but I never like the hero , just play a Valla or Fenix, much more effective

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did u even READ what i said? they arent comparable, but im saying that a card that is balanced doesn’t see play, and a hero that is “average” for a new player is just like that balanced card in HS: unwanted.

literally common sense: why play a normal guy if there is an OP one?

in HS, you cant get “skill” with cards like HOTS with heroes. which is the thing that makes an “average” hero pretty good when you play him.

im saying that in HS, they have a way of making normal or bad cards playable. in HOTS you have pure skill and balance changes. ( the latter happens in HS but very rarely and with ABSURDLY broken cards ) and the meta can be rotated every once in a while, just like HS cards. im saying that it might be time to make ZJ meta a bit.

a meta with the 4 same heroes that persist for 20 years ISNT fun. same with HS and cards and decks. see? there isnt THAT much difference between both. both have meta, both have normal cards/heroes and good cards/heroes.

both games have regular rotations in different ways ( balancing or introducing new elements to the game ). if anything, RNG and the fact that one is a MOBA and one is a card game, are the ONLY differences present xd.

TLDR; i related it to HS because it SHOWS clearly what i mean by META and how it always changes to make the game more fun, and ZJ should become meta.