How intense the Bronze League can actually be

All righty then

I did not enjoy our shared matches. Mostly because you did not do well.

You can scapegoat around, but I do not look down on you or any low ranked.
But usually I do not enjoy playing with ppl who do not give their best.

Yes, still the same rules. I care for my QM and SL stats, I do not care about my UD or Aram ones. The latter two are my non serious modes.
I also have/had really high mmrs in those modes, thus if I played with low mmr players, the MM expected me to hardcarry and that is not fun.

He could’ve try, and then he would’ve died. His deaths also didn’t really matter, because he can just play better and “fix” his prior mistakes. He can make plays to regain value to balance out the “devalue” he gave to his team by dying due to poor plays.

I’m judging your post.

“The look how hard it is for Fan in Bronze” sounds like “bronze is hard”, which isn’t true, and I didn’t even see him having a hard time.
If your point was not that “bronze players are actually good”, try to say “look how hard time Fan’s allies had”. Or look how hard it is for bronze players. But you said Fan was struggling, when he did not.
And when we say that Fan is actually fine, if your point was “poor bronze players”, you would respond like “and that’s why it’s hard for us” but instead you doubled down on the “but Fan had it rough” and went defensive…

Imo, the lightheartedness failed in the op, I wouldn’t blame the responds it generates.

Anyway, I mean no harm to you. I don’t look down on you. I’m not on a high horse, I’m not judging ppl.
Sorry if I hurt you, that was not my intention. (That’s why I didn’t want to talk about our times as allies despite you mentioning it.)

You: I don’t look down on you

Also you: I don’t want to play with you because I think you’re bad


You could have just said it to me back when we were friends on Bnet man

Friends should talk

Friends should let each other know how they can make each other’s games more enjoyable

I would have actually listened to you

But instead you just went silent because you didn’t like playing with me and decide to show your true opinions of me out here in these forums years later

The following is me doing an impression of you:

“Oh well you’re Bronze which is the lowest achieveable rank in the whole game so I understand why someone at your level lacks the intelligence to tell that Fan isn’t going Super Saiyan in this game and only fights in his base form, once again there is no shame man, but Bronze is Bronze and there is no need for copium…”

I look back on our matches fondly because I saw the bright-side in those few matches where we struggled and I remember you writing on one of my other posts that you were still open to playing with me and here you are telling me that you didn’t enjoy those few games

Why would you tell me that you were open to playing more with me if you disliked playing with me?

That’s like asking to get punished

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This is why your Naz defense was so embarrassing. You don’t even know what you don’t know and then try to dress it up as something more than it is. This was Fan playing badly and STILL winning.

The fact that you came to the conclusion that you did after watching this video is more an indictment of the lack of insight you have than the difficulty of playing in bronze. Which is certainly not a crime, but I also don’t have to pretend your delusions are actually triumphs of will and challenge.

You opened up a good discussion for those who think they are “stuck” in Bronze or at any rank. Tone and nuance in text can be obscured or lost (Unless you possess the linguistic flare and precision of a Xenterex!) and this can lead to threads being unintentionally derailed.

If your intention with this thread was to point out that many players in Bronze can effectively do basic things like, soaking, camp timing and other broader macro decisions, then that’s a good point. From my experience (Hitting my personal skill ceiling.), limitations in my micro ability means I can only climb so far, it’s hard to accept, but it’s key if you don’t want to become a grumpy player who blames everyone for your failure.

I also agree with you that rank shaming should never be a thing. Hots is just a game, and some people are more gifted mentally and/or physically, so their climb or learning curve is easier than the average or below average player.

I wish I had something more to add to the discussion beyond that, but I don’t enjoy watching Fan, he’s a great player, but his personality is not to my taste.

Was that pun intentional? If so, I rather like it, and I’m calling Tychus “Typhus” from now on.

The problem is, that some people (me included) can still “do their best”, but their best still sucks in comparison to a more skilled player. I feel sad now.


Bronze is the lowest league for a reason and players come with different strengths and weaknesses.

You could have lets say a KTZ like the one mentioned in the video with the micro skills better than some players in gold but then make poor macro/draft decisions.

Ultimately though unless they are purposefully sabotaging or playing chill with friends if they are a better player than bronze level they will climb out with enough games played.


Even in the forums, you admitted you’re not trying yo do your best:

That is not the issue here, @Minky. My fiancé is Bronze, Hoku was Gold, AlarakoftheStorm is Bronze, my rlf friends are Plat at best. I like(d) playing with them all.
If you do your best, and sadly that’s “not enough”, that’s enough for me.
But @Xylord sit most game in the air as Medivh doing nothing and when I said he did poorly he denied it.

I said it to you, @Xylord. You didn’t listen.

Intelligent ppl can be bad. You also claim to choose to be bad.
You’re not lacking intelligence, you’re lackong high skill experience. No shame in that.

I still am. I did not enjoy those matches. But I’m not a man who refuses to be proven wrong. I can also handle some bad matches for friends.

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I don’t understand the point here, are you implying that bronze is difficult in a certain way?

It does not, it exists with a title that implies otherwise that people are there for a reason and there’s no shame in this, I certainly facepalmed from the times of Silver because I really didn’t like the bad plays, from someone trying to use Dragon Strike on a fort to KTZ having 8 stacks by level 20.

The difficulty of bronze is a myth and you should casually win with time if you are better than everyone, bronze are some of the most vulnerable to dives because they don’t understand fundamentals of position that literally my condition to a game was Valla pushing too hard that they staggered their team in a QM game.

Small stuff like this make the difference and they are easy to capitalize alone or with some people.

Fan really wasn’t trying and he is aware why, there’s nothing competitive there it’s a mess fest, most of them don’t know what to do and he just toy around them for that reason.


Fan grinds out games as well doesn’t he.

I tend to play a lot of games in a row and you are not going to be playing at 90-100% of your ability all of the time.

I’m probably more auto pilotish and am around 70 - 80 percent majority of the time sometimes less if i’m tired/triggered sometimes more when you hit your peak of concentration for a bit.

My point is especially in bronze when like you said it’s a fiesta and he’s grinding a lot of games out while keeping chat entertained he probably isn’t playing at his best.

Haha, I think it was just auto correct, which is quite annoying because proper nouns didn’t trigger auto corrections nearly as much before. Also just tried to write smurf, and it auto capitalizes it as if I’m talking about the blue gnomes creatures lol, which I’m pretty sure it never did before. For all the advances in AI, I do not like this “progress”.

The difference is you’re not trying to pass off your skill level as more than it really is. That kind of self awareness is refreshing, compared to someone who is low skill, and then has the gall to say, well…actually, I’m actually pretty good because bronze is so hard, and all you people could never cut it if you were playing there.

You’re also plat, which is a FAAAAAAR cry from bronze (which again is perfectly fine), which is why this thread’s thesis and objective is patently ridiculous.

I’d wager the KTZ was probably a smurf, but even still, that’s one of 5 enemies. The other 4 were generally pretty bad. And clearly, facing against a smurf doesn’t stop you from having your own as seen in this game.

Fan really does like being theatrical, hamming it up when he dies, blaming the people’s micro when it’s generally just his bad positioning. It makes the lower skilled players feel good about themselves and reconfirms that macro, aka brainless soaking, is how people get ahead, which is just a terrible long term strategy. Here he mocks and reports the Stitches and praises the BW, when it was the BW that was terrible, teaching his audience how to be a bad healer.

And people like Xylord eat it up as gospel. It’s pretty disgusting honestly.


I do enjoy watching Fan and I think overall he is a positive influence in the hots community and possibly keeps the player base up a bit.

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle where he is a very good player but not perfect like nobody is, especially in the moment.

He makes plenty of mistakes and isn’t right about everything but he is clearly a gm level player who must have some of the highest amount of SL experience going from all ranks.


Plus he may have a code to not try his best. Like in this game reyalP also didn’t try hard except for hunting him.

After a big fail streak it’s good to finally do a stomp myself and gain confidence, I can still do it. (Li-Ming respawn voice: ) Or not.
But it’s a regular discussion that skilled players shouldn’t smurf. So he tries not to destroy the fun for the others.

Viewers mostly enjoy these matches, so they want him to climb slow. Teaching by pointing mistakes out, performing some, all the while it’s relatable.

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There was a specific video where he in a high league explained a lot of basic fundamentals and demonstrated immediately each one, he knows how to play, he can try hard to the fullest each game at his own will, he simply does not because he can bring entertainment in other ways, and it works for his own profits.


So if I think what you just said to me is abusive I can report your post and its okay? Clearly nothing you said to me was inherently abusive… so why is reporting it okay, just because I think its toxic?

Honest conversation risks offending people, even if it isn’t your intention. You risk offending someone, or at least risk someone disagreeing with you if you speak honestly. You’re posting that Bronze league can be intense too, but to people in higher leagues it can seem like its a post to make Bronze players look “not as bad as people think” which undermines the glory of obtaining higher ranks. Some might even feel offended by it because by glorifying low ranks you can make players who put in a lot of time and work to achieve a higher rank seem like their efforts aren’t even worth it because you can get that same intensity in Bronze, when you seriously cannot. If you’re playing at the skill of a Plat, Diamond, Master or GM you should stomp true Bronze players in every respect. I’m not a particularly high ranking player and I can still understand why people would disagree with this take.

Stitches was being honest about his complaints. BW wasn’t where she needed to be and Stitches pointed it out. If you think the way he voiced his complaints was abusive or report worthy, yikes. I don’t feel like he was trying to offend anyone, but trying to get his team to work together. That is different than being okay to upset others as long as you win.

As I said, I don’t like Fan’s personality, but I don’t get the posters here saying he isn’t a good player. He’s a streamer, and if all he did was give dry advice on gameplay, he wouldn’t have much of an audience.

IMO, Fan finds a decent balance of providing entertainment, with some educational content thrown in.


Who’s saying he isn’t a good player? I don’t think anyone is disputing that. The problem here is Xylord is putting him on a pedestal, to the point where he’s said Fan is the ONLY person that is actually good at high level, unable to discern between Fan the former pro, and Fan the entertainer playing in bronze league.

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He’s the best, but his plays are intentionally not good in this linked video. Ppl not saying he’s bad, just that he chose to be here. And the ability to choose such thing indicates quite the opposite of being bad.


Gotcha. Apologies, I was tired and misread.


This is not the first streamer I’ve seen who’s acknowledged that the ladder experience is not that enjoyable when you aren’t playing at the very top of the ranks.

The Storm League ladder experience is less than ideal by many metrics and its not unreasonable to state as such.

The long and short of it is that I think that too many player have an unhealthy emotional investment in their performance on the ladder on both sides of this debate.

Food for thought.


He does. He has multiple times showed his match history on his YT clips where you would see multiple loses and a few wins. He even had 3 of his friends leave a match cause they got stomped by smurfs once.


How long does he tend to stream for?

Its practically his job isnt it so i’m assuming hes streaming for like 6 to 8 hours most days? I could be wrong though never watched his stream just youtube.

So I would of thought even though he seems to go from bronze to gm in a month or so its still quite a few games.

Acknowledging that fans primary focus is to entertain rather than try hard so he could obvioualy do it in less games if he wanted to.

I get the impression that a lot of people who say it’s impossible to climb don’t put enough games in.

There are definately match making issues exasperated by the lower player base.

Speaking from my experience I managed to solo climb on 2 accounts last year from silver to plat.

Took around 400-500 gameish iirc mainly solo queue and there wud be times i’d go up to Gold 1 and drop back down to silver.

I made a new account recently to use mainly melee assassins and I was im bronze 1 last week and i’m around silver 2 after 100 games.

I’ve been playing a bit on NA as well and am straddling the line between Bronze 1 and Silver 5 for some reason lol.

There are plenty of games that feel like a big mismatch on matchmaker so I know what people are talking about but it’s a game in maintenance mode that we are choosing to play.

So I don’t understand what they achieve by coming onto the forums to complain about it.

Its definately not impossible to climb solo queue in ranked from my experience but it is a grind and will be plenty of testing times.

If you group up as a duo I find you actually tend to get quite poor match making.

Queueing up as 3 seems a lot more reliable and makes sense as you know over half of your teams arnt trolls or afkers.

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