I’ve won games with a 2500 total player level deficit. Player level means absolutely nothing in this game.
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There are two things that do not fit into this explanation, and can make games go weird.
- Smurfs
- Boosted accounts.
If a silver plays with his master friend on a gold smurf. He will rise, maybe to plat or diamond. When the game matches you with this player, it doesn’t know that he’s not actually plat.
There is no conspiracy.
You seem to think that if you win a few games. It should be impossible for you to get team mates who will make mistakes and cause a loss. People can have bad days, they can be forced to play roles they’re bad at, they can have their best heroes banned etc. All of these will cause losses, and you will never know why. So people just blame the system.
I got thrown all the way to Bronze 3 once ,due to the stupid queue cancel bug. I am now Gold 1. I’m not a GM. So how is this possible? Do you believe that I’m hacking?
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Not gonna lie, the higher I climb, the amount of potatoes does indeed go down, but I still get these randoms that have not played in 2 years, who one day decide to hop in Ranked and are 100% clueless. Or people with surprisingly low win rates this season 20-40% and yet they are my rank… Perhaps a ranked ladder reset is needed to correct the current rank mismatch caused by earlier ranked system and the way you could get QM MMR be used in ranked back then.
Or even better, block new players from playing ranked until they won X amount of Unranked games. If you did not play X amount of Ranked games last season, you must also win X amount of Unranked games to unlock Storm League.
If we look up posters that bring up the ‘patent’ a good chunk of them are default-avatar complainers
Is that really going to be your angle here? Rather than admit that you didn’t pay attention to the names and mistook me for OP, you’re actually going to try to argue that default avatar “complainers” are a hivemind of inferiors to each whom may imputed anything another default avatar poster has written?
I would also note that this reply is again largely content-free and a little insane. It seems that you do not like what I wrote/quoted, but rather than treat me to a delightful wall of text with links and enumerated refutations, you’ve remained uncharacteristically vague, making only allusions to some unspecified past threads or some nebulous “consequences” that haven’t happened.
When I write, I tend to do so for more than just a single person; even if replies are direct, the post is going to be read by other people. It’s not a mistake, but attitude/reactions like yours are just replaceable.
The mainstay issue of these sort of complaints is that they become stop-gap reactions that don’t go any further; they just stop thinking, and if something doesn’t agree with them, they pretend it’s a bunch of nothing.
The ability for people to ignore stuff means they won’t be informed, but said replies try to act like they are, despite all signs contrary to that. Yea, having a long wall can be intimidating, but pretending you went through it, when you have no personal incentive to do as such, pretty much means its going to be regulated to a tl;dr label, and you’ll act like you’re the better for it.
And that’s petty much the whole “zomg patent” reaction in a nutshells; it’s a tl;dr reaction that won’t care to know more, think about it, or take other considerations into their conclusion.
You know those
[nobody ever]
-then something //
or
[exists]
-MEMElord
type comments?
That’s pretty much your reaction in this, and much the same by way of extension to all the similar posters.
That sort of stuff is pretty much like people turn their brain off, and so long as they can claim stuff is ‘nothing’, or just generate their ‘meme’ reaction from the ‘nothing’ they didn’t notice, they aren’t going to do more than that.
Blizzard’s brainwashing seemed to have worked on you.
The MMR ACTIVELY tries to hold you in a region where it thinks you should be. Only if you try really hard, you can slowly move up but Blizzard will make it really hard for you. Why do you think do so many people smurf and tell afterwards that it was much easier for them to become gold or diamond with the new account while their old account is stuck in bronze or silver since ages?
The MMR works like a rubber band. It defines the regions where you should be. If you win too many matches and would leave that region the rubber band will pull you back the farther you are away from the MMR region. And countless people already shared their experience that this is not done by placing much better players against you but by placing much worse players into YOUR team. Countless of players have the same expirience. In the first matches you have players that exactly know what to do, know how to lane, play smart, follow pings and are quite decent mechanically. Once you win too much, you suddenly have feeders in your team, players that AFK in base or lane the whole match, disconnect every minute, pick the worst heroes in draft with no synergies at all, die right before the objective spawns and end the match with 10-15 deaths. And you often don’t just have one of such players in your team but several.
Blizzard doesn’t give you the chance to prove your skill against better players but they sabotage your success by placing terrible players in your team and make you lose on purpose. If you still manage to win, you get some lousy points which means you have to win TONS of such clown fiesta matches to finally rank up which most players just won’t do because they lack the time.
The MMR keeps you in a region where it thinks you belong. The longer you stay at that region the more set in stone your MMR will be and even harder it is to rank up. Lots of players have dumped their old accounts because of that because there would have been just no chance to rank up in the next months unless you would dedicate 20 hours a day. Also people that start this game, fool around in QM a lot, try new heroes, suck with them and then try ranked after some time will be doomed. Their bad plays in QM will directly transform over to ranked and will stick on them like a bubble gum in your hair.
That’s why the pros that smurf play just the top heroes in QM to get the boost they need to be placed high in ranked. The system is flawed. It punishes you for playing different heroes in QM and it punishes you even harder if you win too many games in a row.
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Just like how science brainwashed me about a geoide Earth and gravity.
If you want to believe, do it, and go on, think that ppl are brainwashed who are not as “woke” as you :'D
You might live on a different plane of existence from us mere mortals. Whether you write for just me personally or for a broader audience, it doesn’t change how regular people process individuality. Someone else reading this thread would be just as confused as I was when they see you claim that I considered anything to be “so obvious”, or that I touted the patent as some grand discovery. They might wonder which of my posts in this thread would qualify as “rants” or where in my first post was it evident that I was searching for a scapegoat.
These small considerations may not matter to enlightened beings such as yourself who can see that all are one and one is all, but please, for the benefit of the lesser minds on this forum, would you at least play along with the fiction of separate personhood?
How would 50/50 not be the natural rate anyway? You climb until people play better than you outright, and then you sink until you play better. In a game like this, the gradient will blur way more because smurfs, low player count and the general attitude toward the game itself, but the principle holds: you will never, ever maintain a constant upward streak simply because you’ll naturally plateau at some juncture or another.
That’s all there is to it.
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Actually it does.
Basic response of reading comprehension is “what is the author’s intent?” How the audience answers that of themselves is going to influence how they read anything else.
If people see length, and it agrees with them, they’ll like it regardless of anything else. If people see length, and think it against them, they’ll brazenly disregard it.
Those ‘small considerations’ you want to sit behind are pretty much the very thing that hold you back from engaging with anything else. That’s why your reaction is particular to me, the anon, and not what is written.
Quick sample here, when I wrote the word “consequence” earlier, you took that to mean one particular thing through a quick skim; you ‘read’ it in so far as it doesn’t have what you want, so you’re satisfied concluded you ‘read’ it when you really didn’t.
If people aren’t going to read something, that’s fine, they can do that.
When people claim they did something, that they didn’t, then that creates problems with communicating with others.
It’s not me being “enlightened” or whatever way you want to frame “oh that guy is so arrogant” it’s just a difference between someone who puts a bit of effort into something, and someone who doesn’t, but will claim otherwise.
“Consequence” is taken to mean “something bad” rather than “something that happened”
The ‘consequence’ of the sun ‘rising’ is heat and light. Yea, that can go on, but the basic gist is your take sees select words, and since you don’t have motivation to read it through, you sell yourself short on the process, and call it ‘good enough’.
That’s your take on the matching, the ‘patent’ and so on and so on. You can backhanded compliment other people to try to push them away to keep in your bubble, but vehemently wanting to assert authority/knowledge on something, and then denying all signs of it, is pretty much setting yourself up for a bad time.
yes, it is. And like most patents, it probably isn’t implimented, and certainly not in HotS.
it has been discussed years ago. As Xenterex notes below your post.
Regardless, I’ve got someone on my friends list with a 57.1% winrate over 10166 games (every mode but versus AI selected).
And it is “just” 55.5% if you count QM (over 8000 games).
I think that solidly shows that the matchmaker is not programmed to force 50%. Because over that many games… forcing 50% would be easy.
Speak for yourself!
I can consistently fail to do anything meaningful when I only use my keyboard to play!
/sarcasm
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Actually it does.
Still looking for even a hint of an argument for why it’s acceptable to put words–not even imagined strawman words but literally another poster’s words–into my mouth.
It’s not me being “enlightened” or whatever way you want to frame “oh that guy is so arrogant”
Arrogant? You’d have to actually have made a good argument to qualify for that one. That there was just pure mockery. It’s obvious (there I said it) that you mistook me for OP. But it’s fun to mock you as you try to defend and indefensible position, like a kid with chocolate on his mouth saying he doesn’t know what happened to the cookies. If only you didn’t have such superior attention and effort, it would be so much easier to admit a trivial error, then.
Quick sample here, when I wrote the word “consequence” earlier, you took that to mean one particular thing through a quick skim; you ‘read’ it in so far as it doesn’t have what you want, so you’re satisfied concluded you ‘read’ it when you really didn’t.
I used the word consequence because it was a direct quote. I used it in the same way that you did. In a context where my complaint is clearly that you’ve been very stingy on detail and evidence, it fit right in. But please, go on, tell me more about my confirmation bias.
Also, why this focus on trying to claim that I don’t read your posts? I thought you post for everyone, not for the person you’re replying to. What would it matter if I dismiss or misunderstand one of your walls of text? Countless others would still benefit from your wisdom, plus you could enjoy another opportunity to see yourself bloviate.
yes, it is. And like most patents, it probably isn’t implimented, and certainly not in HotS.
But it shows that what you doubted was possible can actually be done, and moreover, was an active research interest of Activision. Just as you could get matched into a game where your weapon is particularly effective, you could get matched into a game where you hero is particularly effective or ineffective.
It also demonstrates the granularity of Activision’s interest in matchmaking outcomes. Not only is skill a concern, but so is a player’s underperformance on that particular day, the gameplay preferences of his teammates, playing with friends rather than strangers. Would it be a stretch to think that Bizzard may be interested in arranging QM matches that not only fill out a generic role scaffold, but that also have some assurances that you wouldn’t have something like illidan, butcher, raynor into lili, cassia, johanna?
Pros cheat the system to get their ranking?
Please go post this on the League of Legends forums and get laughed out of existence, since that has an even wider playerbase to refute your conspiracy theory.
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Riot shut down their forums.
Win rate is not rigged or enforced in this game. Your skill and that of your team determines the outcome. Eventually, you will find your equal in the game.
Now as for hearthstone, F that game. That crap is rigged.
Except you didn’t. Trying to claim you did is just more demonstrates of how you superficially grasp something, claim otherwise, and deride others for it.
The teniable fixation you have in trying to goad the ‘mistake’ is that that is just more of the same superficial fluff of what you’re reading in this. “oh he mistook me for the OP, therefore yada yada” – to which that’s further strained by how you claim you can’t fathom the ‘acceptability’ to ‘put words in the mouth’ when that’s pretty much what you’ve been doing from the onset. Even if you were to try to say “oh well he does it, therefore I can” that wasn’t the case in the first place, but you want it to be, so you attribute it accordingly.
And that’s part of the big hang-up on your perspective in this topic, you want things to be the case more than you check to see if they actually are. Yea, the choice of words I used before were used by the OP, but you echo the sentiment expressed; while you may try to sit in the gutter and assert “oh well I’m only trying to see if it’s ‘possible’ and not say it ‘obviously’ is rigged” but the way you respond to other posters in this regard (more than just myself in case you don’t notice) follows the same mindset. And even beyond you and the OP, there’s poster in a similar boat of avatar + argument that was apart of that, to which that probably didn’t occur to you either.
The problem with your take is that it’s very limited, and you assume it can’t be anything else, therefore ‘possible’ suggestions above that are exaggerated and mocked. Even if you want to assert to not be the ‘OP’ you’re trying that much harder to try to make their case with similar defects, so as much as you think you were ‘mistaken’ for the OP, you’re pretty much in the same observational rut.
That conclusion there of trying to claim I “post for everyone?” That’s an indicate of you not reading the material, making assumptions, and then acting informed anyway, but then to try to bemoan others for something you didn’t think through.
Why would it matter if you misconstrued what I wrote?
Because then I’ll reply with an attempt to try to correct the misconception that’ll just end up being more length that you ignore.
So here’s part of the ‘unspoken’ context regarding the patent fixation. For one, the patent itself was filed back in 2015, and activision has had posted replies about it; the concerns of "well blizzard is owned by activision so they could still use the patent’, is just an ill-informed guess by people that didn’t look into replies made to that patent.
For instance, https://pdfaiw.uspto.gov/.aiw?PageNum=0&docid=20190329139 that’s a much more recent patent regarding match-making algorythmes to try to encourage micro-transactions filed by activision. The system uses performance-based algorithms (the stuff people want in HotS) to determine a player ‘style’ and use that to over virtual coaching opportunities for that player to be matched with others of a similar play style.
However, both parents are particular to first-person shooter games; the metrics, interactions, incentives, etc etc are for a particular genre. Even if someone were to say “oh well, they can just adjust some stuff to make it work for hots” it isn’t the same thing, and some of the changes that have been done with HotS matching have demonstrated the problems of trying to realize that.
Activision patents spell out metrics that have a ‘strong’ correlation with ‘good’ performance, which isn’t that surprising because getting a lot of headshots will have a better effect toward victory in that genre than just about any possibly metric found in HotS. In simpler terms, what ‘stats’ actually influence wins in HotS isn’t the same stats that influence wins in Call of Duty or Modern Warfare, or any of whatever other IP activision has.
And I could go on, but here’s the main kicker: for people that look at activision patents, how many have bothered to realize that blizzard has its own list that they use instead?
Of the posts that scample to find ‘rigged’ proof for blizzard games, how many have ever bothered to look at Patents Assigned to BLIZZARD ENTERTAINMENT, INC. - Justia Patents Search
and read through what they actually have, rather than just speculate what could or would be?
There’s a lot more ‘sound’ resources available people can pull for their ‘rigged’ rants that they don’t even remotely consider because they’re already convinced they have the ‘answer’ that they just stop trying to consider otherwise.
Even if you find some magical hang-up in goading others about “mistaking” you for someone else, you’re in the same rut of fixated processing, so it doesn’t ‘matter’ if there was a mistaken identity or not.
Some people actually use words to comprise meaning, and not pictures. If my choice for reference in that lump of what I posted included you based on the choice of perspective exhibited, the avatar doesn’t matter. But whoops, I guess you’ll have to dig through another activision patent to figure out the implications of that idea 
A little misconception: The forced 50% is not programmed into the algorithm willingly. It’s a natural consequence of matchmaking rules that blizzard implemented.
You cannot have a binary (Win/Loss) input to represent the skill of 10 people in every single game. So naturally, some bad players end up being carried and some good players are held back. What this does is create this weird kind of “hidden skill rainbow” of matches where some people are clearly leagues better than their lesser skilled counterparts.
Imagine it as a swing or rubber band. Some good players or bad players might be pushed further one way or another because of this constant cycle of mismatching of skill. When you get that person on your team (Good player with lower MMR, or vice-versa), it will affect the outcome more so than if all 10 players were in fact of similar skill. Having that “swing” in player skill will cause major inconsistencies in matches. What ends up happening is that when you are in a match where you are NOT on the swing and are actually at the actual average skill of the match. If you have that good mismatched player, you usually stomp the enemy. The same happens on the other side of the coin, you have the bad player that got carried, you get stomped.
Now of course, this is not just ONE player per game, it can be any combination with the same end result (Similar MMR, but with a rainbow of skill). If we are to believe that the current MMR system tries to match people based on MMR and not actual skill, what is inevitable is that the chance that you get the player on your team is 50%. However, the chance that he is either on the Good side or bad side (of skill) is also 50% (If the system does not discriminate). The problem is that now, instead of having all 5 players each be 20% (1/5) of the team, some are less and some are more than the 20%. The side with more impactful players (on the good side) will naturally win more (or less if on the other side of the swing). Depending on which side of the swing you are, you either need to play extremely better than your average to win or you really need to be bad to lose.
After many games, you notice that these 1-sided games are unfair and it comes down to the skill of the players on your team or the enemy team. That’s why the forced 50 seems to put worse players on your team when you are good and on a winning spree. Because it’s you, YOU are now the one on the swing when that happens, same thing when you go on losing sprees, you all the sudden get better players than the enemy. Once you play so many games, you can tell where you are skill-wise and just know when you have a useless team or if the enemy team is garbage.
TL;DR - The forced 50% is not really a system intended to keep everyone at 50%. It’s just that skill =/= Winrate. MMR system is binary when there are 10 total factors at play rather than the 2 (W/L). This causes imbalanced games and makes it seem like you are forced wins and losses.
I’m sure I made mistakes in trying to explain this, but that was my best shot after working all day so there ya have it. What do you think?
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Yes and no.
Could you design a matchmaker to just do that? Sure.
If you do that while also Inputting player skills, being able to predict which exact purchasable item/cosmetic/hero will stomp on a specific player on the enemy team.
While also still getting enough good quality matches to ensure that players don’t just quit the game. While keeping queue times down.
Does that sound realistic to implement? Being able to realistically determine how a player will play and who they will dominate? No.
The core idea is possible to implement, but not in HotS. Not to any agree that that parent notes.
Also remember that the percent of parents filed by “tech companies” that are actually used is fairly small. And given video games are companies which are intimately tied to technology, I feel it is appropriate to group these companies in with other tech companies.
To use an analogy that will confuse most people, it is like EPIC and similar CPU architectures.
Designing hardware that works really well because the compiler is perfect does not work.
In order for such a patent to be potentially implemented in HotS, we would need to assume that every other part of the matchmaker always works without flaw.
Forced win rate sort of exists but it’s not malicious or anything, Blizzard uses a specific type of MMR system in most of their games and that MMR system tries to place you against opponents within your MMR bracket, in this sense the system is trying to even your wins out to a 50% average by giving you theoretically better (or worse) opponents to keep you at around 50% wins.
That being said, match making is so bad due to their MMR brackets being too massive and teams with a really low MMR player+a bunch of high MMR players together, basically guaranteeing your MMR bracket places you against opponents who are substantially worse than you.
It’s a flawed system for team games. Works fine for stuff like StarCraft 1vs1 though!
I have to agree that it’s weird that the game lets players go from not playing for 2 years to going straight into ranked.
Please, let’s not go there.