During a hiatus from this game I played DOTA2 / lol just to see what the fuss is about. I learned alot about the other mobas and I have concluded what they have that HOTS is missing. Runes, items, ect add depth to the game. All we have is talents and that is it. I propose we add something else to this game to give it more depth / complexity.
Back in the alpha stages in this game HOTS actually tried something and scratched the idea completely. I think it was called “Gems”. They added small bonuses such as move speed, attack speed, in small increments. While the system was scrapped and totally throw away I do believe they was onto something. HOTS as it is now is just to simple. It needs more depth.
What this depth should be I am sure is highly debatable. Trinket slots? Gems? Maybe just weapons? Anything really will work, because as is HOTS is just to shallow / simple for the hardcore MOBA crowd.
“But HOTS was meant to be the simple MOBA!” I get that, and I do agree to a certain extent that simplicity is not a bad thing. I would argue however it is TO SIMPLE. I could give numerous examples but most people have played DOTA / LOL a time or two. No reason to go into detail.
And to the people that think this game is “toxic” then lol @ you. You have no idea how bad league is omg. People wanting to forfeit at the slightest bump in the road at the 15 minute mark at ALL levels of play. Even diamond and above in ranked. Its nuts. While HOTS may be on the stricter side of things we should be thankful. I have seen what true toxicity looks like and holy crap…
Thoughts? Concerns? Trolls? Ideas?
I want to hear it all. Thank you for your time.
P.S. wtf happened to “performance based MMR”?
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Team play matters a lot more in HOTS, rather than sitting in a lane shooting minions all game. That is the main draw of this game.
If you want super complex gameplay mechanics play DotA. If you want to get cyber bullied in chat play league
Failed miserably because the idea doesn’t work
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If it’s too hard, nobody will play it. Raynor is easy for many reasons.
Being too easy, and different from other Mobas is what some people came for, for hots!
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Teamplay matters in the other games as well. Especially past the 15 minute mark or so. The game turns into ARAM down middle lane more often than not.
So they gave up? Why not rework the idea and try again?
Because good players win games. Stat padding should not boost your rank
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It is to simple is my argument. Hardcore MOBA players avoid this game for this reason. Hardcore players attract other players, stream games, and offer advice to noobs. And we all know how blizz wants us to hold the hands of lesser skilled players. just look at the MMR system.
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So your saying stats dont matter? Come on now…
The only stat that should matter for rank is winrate. Good players choose the option that most increases their chance to win. That is always optimal. And that is the only thing that should matter
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DotA2 and such are just pointlessly complex. In the end all that matters is skill and unlike DotA2 where skill only starts to matter after writing your masters in DotA2 item crafting, stats and optimum min max picks, in HotS it starts right from the beginning.
In DotA2 you will win more matches knowing what numbers are good when, where as in HotS you will win more matches knowing when to time your recall as Tracer to avoid a Kael Pyroblast.
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I do agree with this. It is needlessly complex. LOL is a nice balance between the two I think however.
HOTS however is straight training wheels and they never come off the bike.
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HotS is actually very complex. People always bring up runes and items like in LoL, and it is a lot to learn for a new player, but once you learn them, you actually can make good decisions for most of the other champions in that game.
But In HotS, you need to learn every individual heroes skill tree and how it might change the way they behave to be on the same level of knowledge as my previous example from LoL. And there is always someone new to learn from reworks and new heroes.
That’s just the hero’s and champions. This doesn’t even take into account the decision making required for knowing when to rotate, when to get camps, and when to fight over an objective or to give it up. LoL is greatly simplified when it comes to map awareness. It’s mostly about ganks and pushing when you have a numbers advantage.
All these things actually make HotS a much deeper game strategically than LoL.
The problem is HotS seems simple and people think it’s just about brawling, but there is so much more going on behind the scenes that really deeply impact the game and people really don’t understand that they are not playing well or why they are losing.
They just see that they seem to do fine when they fight, but they still lose hard and don’t get why.
I love the complexity, but it’s actually a huge obstacle for new and beginning players.
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Good luck programming a matchmakimg system that can recognize gamewinning plays even when they are statistically negative. This tank player is doing nothing outside of fights, almost ever! Good thing he’s anchoring bushes. Kel’Thuzad is destroying people left and right! Too bad he goes and takes our camps after we win fights, instead of pushing our advantage.
It seems possible to design an intelligent MMR system, but it would have to understand context. Where on the map were they when? Why might a tank not be trying to accumulate stats? Why might dying be the right play? Why might a good player struggle to deal damage isf their tank isn’t doing their job? How can a support heal dead people? How should pinging and shotcalling factor into MMR? They should, shouldn’t they? It is a winning skill, is it not?
Etc.etc.. Good luck. PBMMR is no easy feat.
If you are winning games consistently, even if you make mistakes, maybe your strengths are just too much for your weaknesses at a given MMR, so you will rise. Then, your weakness will start to hold you back, and will need work if you want to keep climbing. I think people complain about matchmaking too much. IMO, the biggest problem is the community. There is not enough leadership and too much self-indulgent self-righteous behavior when MM either doesn’t provide the best match, or simply if people at the same “true” MMR make a mistake, and perfectly winnable games go to crap because of unwiedly, inflamed egos bouncing around in crowded spaces.
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You think the community is bad here? Hahahaha. Man the other mobas are far, far worse.
With that being said, the competition does have a better MM system. It is not even close. So those complaints are somewhat warranted.
To be honest, I chalk almost all issues with MM up to population. I am sure I dont see the whole picture, I sure as heck don’t play the other mobas but I do see plenty of missed opportunities to win in this game because of interpersonal incompetence.
I don’t care much anyway because I tend to label any conversation about matchmaking as one of “I refuse to acknowledge my own responsibility or shortcomings”, pretty much without fail. If someone talks about being matched with bad players I pretty much stop listening because 99% of the time the conversation is fruitless ranting and comes from a place of shame, I have enough of my own mess to sort out and I don’t need to spend all my time fighting the countless fires that are emotionally injured people seeking validation in a videogame. I just like to play the game. I get annoyed when someone doesn’t end and blames the team for their own stupidity, but I chalk that up to human error rather than strictly failure of the matchmaker.
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Basically the vibe I am getting here is “This game is fine as is, and it does not need any improvements at all”. I have to shake my head at this line of reasoning. Everything can be improved upon. Everything can be tweaked to be better. I cant tell if this is complacency or apathy…
There is so much in this game that can be improved on. Probably the biggest complaint about MM is the mixing of new / older players together. Neither side enjoys this. Then people say “Its because of the population is so low!” Okay so how do you fix that? By getting more people into the game obviously…
How do you do that? By making improvements to the game. Doing nothing gets you…well…nothing. So that is not a logical solution.
Blizz is rather clueless about this game lets be honest here. Some of the best ideas have come from HOTS players, and blizz are the one that fail in implementing these ideas.
Does not help that blizz set the perception that they gave up on this game. Now people truly believe this game is dead. Apathy sets in, people accept it as it is, and alas nothing changes.
Ultimately blizz has to do something, and think we should brainstorm a few ideas for them to work on. If this game never changes / improves then it truly is dead and then what is the point of playing it. The population will just keep getting smaller and smaller, thus making the MM even worse than it is now.
To pretend nothing is wrong with this game and it needs zero changes is mind boggling. It helps nothing and will only speed up its demise.
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I feel the point of having a game like this is that everyone can be as good as everyone else because hero A always equals hero A. Adding stats that only some people have put the time into to get outside of games makes it so the players who play more for fun (and don’t actually want to dedicate all of their time to it) will want to leave, as then it would be some hero A’s and some hero A + x’s. It’s unique because it allows players to thrive based on skill and practice and not based on how many more bonuses they have acquired compared to you.
I must say I don’t think it’ll make the game better, I think it’ll make the game have more of a reason to complain about balance.
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Demise can be a good thing. HotS is merely an iteration of an idea, and does not necessarily need to change. If it dissolves back into its source material of ideas and people who are willing to do the work, new things can come where it once was. It is okay to start over, it’s okay to die.
If you feel driven to do something about it, maybe you should take a drive to Blizzard HQ and apply, because that’s what it takes to get things like what you’re saying done. Better yet you should make your own game, because no one is going to go make a difference at Blizzard regarding HotS at the moment unless their reputation greatly precedes them.
But not everything needs to adapt and succeed. Things will die eventually, and while some ideas can be made to live and wonderfully so, to me, there are much more important things to me to which I would rather devote my energy. If you feel so touched, then more power to you to make change. I don’t want to waste my energy on it.
Your complete lack of passion for this game and obvious apathy is disturbing. Maybe you should not waste anymore energy on this thread.
You are basically advocating for this game to die. Its kinda weird. I get your point however, but I disagree. And thanks for the advice to go to blizz HQ and apply, I love passive aggression for no reason.
I have played this game since alpha, and I do want it to improve. So I guess lets agree to disagree.
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if you feel passionate about video games, i’m not going to say you shouldn’t. But if you saw how passionate I was about things in my life, you wouldn’t be saying something like this. I don’t really get the adversarial tone you take in your whole comment, to me it does not feel appropriate, which probably speaks to our different headspaces on this conversation
EDIT: I want to say I have on and off been passionate about games, I’m just not right now.
No, not really. I am just acknowledging what I think is a likely and suitable outcome. After all, with VR on the rise, gaming is probably going to look very different in 20 years (assuming society still exists as we know it). If you’re interested in adapting this game for the future, great, because I like playing it. But if not, I am comfortable to see this game go where all games eventually go, and seeing what comes next. After all, it is only an idea. The people behind it, and who care about the things in it that I care about, are still here.
it wasn’t, it’s sincere. try reading it again now, knowing it’s not passive aggression.
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