Sorry i dont need people lagging on what apple calls new hardware that was really developed in 2010. No one should ever game on mac anything. Waste of development time.
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Like I said earlier in this thread, there is plenty about Apple that deserves scorn.
But their SoCs, the hardware that drives their phones and tablets, are industry leading.
So please keep the Apple criticism to the (many) areas where they’re actually failing in/at.
Macs aren’t built for it. They’re built for multicore use like video editing, photo editing, rendering…etc not gaming. The iPad rework in 2018 made huge improvements to performance vs older iPads. Much more powerful, can it run HotS. Probably. why? I had a computer with an amd sempron that ran hots. It lagged a lot, but it ran. I’m sure the A12X chip is better than the amd sempron.
Industry leading? God you just made me laugh. Is that why they are behind most of the flag ship phones in terms of specs? Sorry but what the average person needs they can get from a $200 phone. Might not look as nice but hey save 800 bucks and spend it on something better and not going to replace in 2 years.
Also the fact that with their repairs you need to take it to them to get it repaired and they cost you an arm and a leg when its just a connection wire that costs you 5 buck. Sorry but a company that craps on their customer like they do deserves no respect.
Anything apple can do is done much better by a pc or android better. You just need to sit down and review the specs before you buy.
Completely unrelated to the post. NO where are we talking about phones or Apple’s bad business decisions. We are talking about HotS running on an iPad Pro. even though its a stupid topic lol
By the way, the iPhone X has about the same performance vs the Galaxy S10 with less ram. Their software is much more optimized than Android’s. Sorry.
Uh, yeah… their CPU and GPU are top of the class?
They’re done inhouse, and they absolutely destroy every other SoC manufacturer.
I believe others have almost caught up on the GPU side, but they’re still lagging way behind on the CPU side.
Yes, I completely agree.
I’ve got a long list of phones, but the two “daily drivers” I have are my Nokia 6.1, and iPhone.
My old iPhone 7 plus with it’s measly 3GB of RAM absolutely blows away my Mi Mix in performance and multitasking, despite the latter having 6GB of RAM. It also blows the Razer Phone 2, with it’s 8GB of RAM. I have real world experience here, I own all three of these.
And if want to play games or anything that is heavy on the CPU/GPU? Apple is the winner by far.
Btw, here is the Qualcomm 855, (a few percentage behind best Android SoC) against Apple…
https://www.anandtech.com/show/13786/snapdragon-855-performance-preview/2
It barely keeps up with Apple’s 2017 SoC on the CPU side, and is about equal (in the best case) to Apple’s 2018 model GPUs.
So, 1-2 years ahead of the competition, yeah. That’s industry leading.
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Optimized yes. However i managed to get a s5 to update to the latest version of android 9.0 pie after messing around with the firmware of it. Unlike apple i left the partition of the os of 4.4 kikat on it just incase i needed to revert back to it.
Apple you update and your phone cant handle the os you are SOL.
But your right this is not the topic at hand here. Fact of the matter is apple might look nice on the outside but has a lot of downright low quality parts in their system. Yeah might say i7 on the box but it has been proven that apple uses stuff from the lower quailty bins after the cpu has been tested. So i dont need laggy people harming my game because they decide to run apple.
Not for the device Apple makes that the OP is suggesting could be used.
It’s a high quality, high performance per watt device that could breeze through HotS if they kept it low settings 30fps, probably could even handle medium 60fps.
Stop with the FUD please–in relation to the top of iPad Pros. Not sure why you even brought up i7s.
I was bring that up to sate my base of apple using less than acceptable parts in their products.
Forget what mac book it is but they have a fuse in it to pervent burning of the screen connector. Fuse never blows but the connector blows anyway. So tell why i would trust a company that cant even wire a fuse correctly? Is it to make the os more optimized?
you do realize you are comparing the apple a12 chip, which is like latest version, with 4 gen old intel CPU, right? and inbfore AMD, AMD has been pretty far behind intel in IPC for a looong time and only they are catching up with the jump to 7nm next year.
Try comparing it with the 9th gen with specter/meltdown hardware fixes and then we talk 
and LOL at h264ref benchmark, who does h264 on the CPU core lolwut
Can that 4 gen old intel CPU run HotS? If it does, then so can the iPad Pro
guys, it looks like youre still in 2010, now you can buy a R5 2600, 6 cores 12 threats cpu for a 130 USD, and used rx 570 (gtx 1060 performance) for 120 USD.
A pc will cost you like 500 bucks and you will do gaming 10 times better than in any apple product.
This irrelevant. This thread isn’t about what plays HotS better than the iPad Pto. It’s about whether you like the idea of playing HotS on an iPad and if you think would be a good thing or not.
Also if it costs only $500 to make a PC that runs HotS, why do people spend $1000-$2000 on a PC? For more things than HotS obviously. If you’re buying an iPad just to play HotS you’re making a bad decision. But if you already own one, you don’t need to spend the extra money on a new PC.
I know this is very circumstantial but it’s still not a “what’s the most cost efficient way to play HotS”
most adults (since kids only have tablets to watch videos) that paid 700 USD for a tablet has at least a laptop, therefore is a non sense to play in a tablet that has 1/10 of the performance of a PC.
for that 500 USD u can play literally all games at 1080p 60hz, i personally paid much more because im running games at 2560x1440p, 165hz with gsync, so there you have you answer.
Lol i think we are using the same screen. 27 inch screen I take it as well? But it’s true gaming computer are just as costly as a tablet now in days. At least when something of ours breaks we can fix our stuff without having to go to apple and having all our data being deleted when they hand it back to us. But then the cult of apple will always be here to stay and i must say thank you. Because of them they are not buying quality hardware and keeping the demand lower.
Also Xivilaikhys. No one wants that. No one in the development team would want that. Programing anything for apple is a nightmare for developers and i know this for I have to do updates on a application at work. Windows version update can take me about a week to push out. But the apple version of the same update I can take me 2x longer sometimes. Just glad I convinced the higher ups to go full windows system by 2021 to speed things up in production.
I’m not talking about the dev team. I know it would be a pain. I’m talking about the gamer’s perspective.
If you say so.
They are already more powerful than most laptops. At least the Ipad Pro which has one of the largest large scale production commercial chips currently made.
Just because a processor runs x86 does not make it fast. For example the Core2Quad Q6600 I am having to use while waiting for parts to arrive struggles to run HotS past 20 FPS in team fights, and that has a 105W TDP. The Ipad Pro CPU is much more powerful than the Core2 Quad Q6600.
Yes it will not be reaching the same level of performance as a I9 9900K or a Ryzen 9 3900X, but one does not need such performance to run HotS well.
Need a real world example of what ARM can do? Look at the Nintendo Switch. That console is a joke compared with the Ipad Pro yet still a fantastic selling console which lots of dedicated gamers are willing to play on. Of course the iPad Pro is significantly better than it, given how many times more it costs.
The iPad Pro does have a proper GPU. Although not RTX level of performance it still will give the Xbox One X and PS4 Pro a run and certainly outclasses the Switch massively. Given how little power it uses one cannot really complain.
It does not need much cooling capacity given how it has a miniscule TDP. Further more most games are not “stress tests” and so use a fraction of the worst case TDP. For example HotS is mostly single core with some work on a second thread and as such at least 3/4 of the iPad Pro CPU will be sitting idle and not generating heat while playing HotS. This is why most modern phones and Ipads do not suffer from thermal throttling when playing games even for many hours when plugged in.
They do suffer thermal throttling when running stress tests. However so do discrete AMD reference GPUs so this is hardly saying much. Even your Ryzen 5 3600 desktop CPU will thermal throttle a bit when not running at sub 0 degrees C and lowering core temperature 10 degrees can net you an increase in stress test core clock speed.
That is the only real issue with it, and why the MS Surface is doing a much better job at pushing tablets as PCs than Apple is.
They are trying to improve, with the recent addition of keyboard and mouse support, but it is still a long ways off from OSX or Windows 10.
Mainly because of its user base, and not because it is incapable of gaming. If you are the sort of person who buys a surface you are not the sort of person who uses it to play video games. On the other hand if you are the sort of person who likes to play video games you boy a gaming laptop because you get more performance for your money than buying a surface which has a ton of non-gamer orientated features such as touch support.
Nothing technically stops the iPad pro replacing a laptop other than Apples own tablet OS. They should just port OSX to the iPad Pro and be done with it.
Depends on the generation of the processor and not the clock speed. For example Intels new Ice Lake processors powering laptops hitting store shelves soon will easilly ace HotS. Especially the I7 variants. These should hit over 60 FPS. On the other hand an ancient Core2 Quad Q6600 desktop CPU will struggle to hit 20 FPS despite having 5 times the TDP and higher base clock.
This is IPC (Instructions Per Clock). And just because a processor is labelled in a segment like Core I5 does not mean all processors in that segment have the same IPC. For example an old Core I7 920 has a significantly lower IPC than a Core I7 9700K.
And you tested the thermals for it when running HotS?
Cannot compare IPC between ARM and x86. ARM might require more instructions be used for functionally identical behaviour.
Also a lot of the iPad Pro tests are kind of fudged. The iPad Pro has dedicated hardware to speed up some types of common task. This hardware is mostly not useful for gaming performance. This is in line with how no one uses GPUs to mine crypto currency anymore as dedicated crypto mining hardware does mining orders of magnitude more efficiently and quickly.
Depends on IPC. I know from personal experience that a Core2 Quad Q6600 running at 2.4 GHz struggles to hit above 20FPS in team fights, and that is without a GPU bottleneck. A 2.8 GHz I7 920 never dropped below 40 FPS due to its vastly superior IPC. Yes one can compare IPC in this case as both ran the same x86-64 build of HotS.
Depends on model. Some Surface models, especially the laptops, have discrete NVidia GPUs. These will certainly give the iPad a run if not beat it massively.
For integrated graphics only newer Intel products can compete. Intels new integrated GPUs in Ice Lake are not to be underestimated.
Yes if the potato GPU is modern. Older GPUs like the GT 8800 will literally burn out running HotS, or Furmark stress test for that matter.
What is the problem with the feature set? HotS already supports Metal for the Mac OS build.
One cannot compare desktop x86 with mobile ARM. The TDP limits allow for so much performance gains the comparison is not fair. Not only can one push higher clock speeds, but also have higher memory bandwidth, more cache and more functional units per core.
A much more fair comparison would be Amazon ARM server chips against similar purpose Intel Xenon or AMD Epyc server chips. All of these have server TDP limits which are similar to desktop TDP limits.
Within the laptop market the iPad Pro is pretty high up. Sure it is not a gaming laptop but it will easily beat all budget laptops both CPU and GPU wise.
See above. IPC cannot be compared between instruction sets.
Also to reiterate, many of the benchmarks for the iPad Pro are fudged slightly since there is dedicated accelerator hardware just for those sort of tasks. This acceleration hardware generates results similar to a much more powerful CPU. However unlike a powerful CPU like a Ryzen 9 3900X or Core I9 9900K, this is not real CPU power which can be used for any task other than what it was designed to accelerate, and hence the chips actual performance running a game will be much lower. Areas which are extensively accelerated include encryption, hashing and compression, all of which can have impact on benchmarks. Mobile benchmarks specifically factor these in since they are notoriously energy and CPU intensive tasks that mobile devices have to do a lot.
This is why the new Ice Lake CPUs will also feature hardware acceleration for such tasks.
It will not overheat since most of the CPU will be idle. It is like how a Ryzen 9 3900X can use up to 150W of power but running HotS it will likely use less than 20W.
Getting modern phones and tablets to overheat usually requires stress tests. For example Linus from Linus Tech Tips had to run a synthetic benchmark for many minutes before thermal throttling occurred since real gameplay never got the devices hot enough to thermal throttle.
HotS is not CPU heavy. Yes it pushes single core hard, but on modern CPUs it leaves most cores idle resulting in very low power usage. HotS is GPU heavy in that it loads GPUs much more like Furmark than practically every other game other there. It is far more likely that the iPad Pro will suffer GPU caused thermal throttling than CPU caused thermal throttling. Since they are on the same die this might cause general thermal throttling, but it also might not due to the spare thermal budget from the underloaded CPU.
They are making improvements to solve this. However a lot of people get confused between running hot and thermal throttling. Your CPU running at 95 degrees C is not thermal throttling, just running hot. Some recent apple models had bad thermal throttling problems when under demanding work loads, however newer ones have made significant improvements with regard to this and additionally this might not necessarily apply to all workloads.
The conspiracy theorist in me believes that they purposely have bad thermals since running hot for long periods of time will shorten the life of the components and so force you to buy new sooner. However it could also just be trying to push form factor and cost saving too far.
The iPad Pro uses the body as a heatsink to radiate heat away. Thermally conductive material connects the heat producing chips to the body to move and distribute heat. Thanks to the very low TDP this is mostly sufficient for unthrottled performance.
With phones they use the same factor but may also use active cooling from the user. Since they run hitter than 38 degrees Celsius your body acts as an evaporation cooled heatsink to cool the back of the phone. This is why reasonably designed phones never thermal throttle in real workloads when being used and one usually has to place them on an insulating surface while running synthetics to show throttle.
Fixed in newer models. They use more intelligent voltage scaling settings so that the CPU generates similar performance while producing less heat. Effectively it is a kind of overclocking but for improved energy efficiency rather than higher clocks.
This is not really true. Intel CPUs just do run hotter now than they did 15 years ago due to technology node shrinks. Yes many will thermal throttle when under synthetics but then again many desktops CPUs might do the same. You cannot even say they are thermal throttling when gaming because if they have a discrete GPU such as an NVidia RTX then chances are the heat from that is causing the CPU to throttle as the GPU will opportunistically boost clock within power and thermal limits and is why the same GPU performs vastly different between laptop models.
And how would that improve anything? Ultimately the only place to dissipate heat with smart phones and tables is the case. Many already use heatpipes to help spread the heat.
Also one does not even need active cooling to cool the most powerful I9 9900K desktop CPU. Yes a company has made a completely passively cooled I9 9900K system and no it does not thermal throttle at all. It runs a bit toasty but well within operating temperature and will maintain turbo fine.
GCC is a cache test. This is why an AMD Ryzen 5 3600 is twice as fast as a Core I9 9900K.
Many of the tests are computationally complex and so not a good reference for actual CPU performance. For example how will the CPUs compare with real game logic which relies heavily on branch prediction and speculative execution to perform well?
AMD has blown Intel out of the water… There is very little reason to buy Intel CPUs when building a desktop at the moment as AMD might have a tad worse single thread performance at the high end but their multi thread annihilates Intel at all cost brackets. To put it in perspective a $200 CPU from AMD nets you comparable (a small percentage less) gaming performance to a core I9 9900K in most games. Yes it is slower but it costs a fraction of the price and will likely leave you GPU bottlenecked in most games anyway.
HotS exhibits power virus like symptoms on the GPU. There is a reason StarCraft II was infamous for murdering GT 8800s. Estimating how much GPU power it will use is not really possible. It might be that such low power GPUs cannot execute the SC2/HotS shaders efficiently and hence will heavily GPU bottleneck off clock or power limits.
StarCraft II/HotS easily. Needs 1-2 cores at high clock speed and also needs extreme GPU power (actual power, not calculations).
Phones have nothing to do with tablets. Their tablet SOC is industry leading not only as one of the largest chips in mass production but also as far as specs go. The other thing lagging behind is the tablet OS.
This has nothing to do with how capable their hardware is. If you want expensive look up IBM, which is also industry leading and also has some of the largest mass production chips.
NVidia RTX 2080 and 2080 Ti beat it massively…
Until it comes to making the games and realizing that Apple only supports Metal and not Vulkan like everyone else does. Then you need to use hacky compatibility layers to wrap your portable Vulkan code so it can run with Metal and then run into a whole host of compatibility issues as the wrapper is not perfect.
One has to compare by cost. Seeing how much 7nm they are using it is obvious that their SOCs are very expensive. I would not be surprised if the production cost of the iPad Pro SOC was $700, seeing how it has one of the highest transistor counts of all mass produced chips.
Bin has nothing to do with performance. It will still run the same as any other stock CPU of that type.
Instead you just have people like me running a Core2 Quad Q6600 in your games because I am waiting parts to upgrade. Yes I am playing HotS and yes I get 20 FPS in team fights.
I bet you are wishing I was using a modern Mac now lol. Also Mac OS already supports HotS, so if Apple was to hurry up and unify their tablet OS with mac OS then people could already be playing HotS on their iPad Pro. Kind of like what one can do with a MS Surface…
Fuse is to protect from extreme overcurrent situations. Specifically it is to prevent the cables from becoming too hot and catching/starting fire. The cable failing is likely unrelate to the current flowing through it and more likely due to physical damage from use.
AMD is ahead with IPC atm thanks to its new 7nm parts like the Ryzen 9 3900X. At least against all 12nm Coffee Lake Intel CPUs. 10nm Ice Lake changes this and pushes AMD back behind but no desktop Ice Lake CPUs will be hitting the market until 2021. Intel is only leading single thread due to pushing frequency at the cost of any sort of power efficiency.
That is how it is done… Yes some GPUs allow for acceleration but it does not give you fine fidelity over the resulting quality or has major technical issues with some processing pipelines. Hence a lot of streamers still use software based encoders. Not like this is an issue thanks to AMD with chips like the Ryzen 9 3900X.
Depends on “run”. I know a 12 year old Core2 Quad Q6600 can “run” HotS, but I would not recommend the experience to anyone.
Do not buy the R5 2600. Rather save up an extra 70 and get the R5 3600. It is significantly faster.
I somehow doubt it will game better than the new mac pro workstation, let alone 10 times.
It does not have 1/10 of the performance of a similar priced PC. It is much closer to 1/2. It is better than many game consoles that people love to play.
HotS already runs on Mac OS…
Sorry for the long reply. Congratulations if you persevered through all this nerd talk lol.
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dude, i was waching that u were typing on this post and i thought it was bug since it appeared for more than 1 hour, holy crap dude, holy crap.
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I was thinking the same thing. I was waiting for your reply and I am not disappointed.
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Most manufactures for hardware will do some kind of test and mark them accordingly. Some will do better than other for quality and they get put into the a “bin” according to their tests. You have the ones that pass and they are the ones that are marked higher in price and then you have the ones that passed but did not do so well and they get their own bin but can still be sold. Then you have the ones that get tossed because they ether fail quality or can’t perform the test. Its a way to help make sure things are not dead on arrival. Apple is known to get parts from the bin that do pass quality tests but get them on the lower end of the spectrum. Plenty of videos show casing this. That is what i meant by bin.
I don’t have an issue with people using older hardware. Hell i have a buddy i play with who ran with a older mac and all his setting had to be on low and his FPS was around 20fps if that. The fact is that blizzard needs to take into account of 10 year old hardware which they should not be needing to do when the life span of a computer is around 4-5 years tops before its fully obsolete. Yes i understand not everyone can afford a new machine all the time, I fully get that.
The issue is that i have games where people will say “I’m lagging” and a few times was “I have an older computer sorry if i lag” I should not be hindered by you because you are running on hardware that is not meant to play a game from 5-6 years ago.
Apple OS is very different on each device at it’s core and needs to take into account of it. Now programing wise there is not much of a difference but enough for the individual who is programing to have to check documentation to ensure something is supported. Sure if one thing can run on a given version of mac os it can run on everything BUT if something is not supported or you have to do difference calls to the hardware so that the software gets the right info. Thankfully I only ran into this issue once and only took a few hours to figure out the proper calls.
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