Help me git gud at Tyrael!

So… lately I’ve been trying to understand what a Tyrael is and what to do with it. So far I have no Idea what I’m supposed to do with him.
When I’m bullying the enemy backline my team melts off, when i’m tanking in the frontline my face melts off. no matter what I try to do it aways feels i’m not doing enough even when it works.
I’ve tried a lot of builds in most situations and the one I got along better is the support one, but I think my problem is that I don’t know what should I be doing and when.

Take note that I’m playing Solo QM, so I can’t count on composition. I’ll take a look on what you have to say and then return to show the results ‘-’

Be a team player and stop going to the back line. Use your shields on them, use smite to help them escape

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For tanking i like w build and q armor, either ultimate works.

In lower ranks i love drafting him with dive. Get illy on your team and dive backline together.

One of the great things about tyrael is that he can zone without actually being there. Throw a q down like you would chromie’s sand ult and let enemy slowly make their way to your backline. You can certainly soak dmg but maybe not as much as other tanks. If you blow your cooldowns ping retreat and baxk away from fight. Do that if you’re below 50 percent as well.

Either ultimate is great but in lower ranks sanctification will be much easier to land if enemy has predictable burst (mosh, ring, pyroblast.

All in all i think you should try to draft him with dive, against burst, or both. He’s insanely powerful under those conditions but struggles in other scenerios.

People are not reading lol

Tyrael is overall a weak tank in terms of just tanking.

The Tyraels which do good use sanct clever and have an in-out play style with high damage numbers. This works especially good with Abathur but also without him. https://www.icy-veins.com/heroes/tyrael-build-guide (the sword of justive build)

If it doesn’t work for you then just move on. Tyrael is a niche hero and not made for everybody and doesn’t work well with every team comp. The fact that he has no CC is a real problem vs. certain matchups.

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Tyrael is… more of a support than a main tank. He’s very mana-hungry if you spam abilites, so you really shouldn’t use abilities for more than their uses (that I list below).

  • Smite is a decent chasing tool which gives allies movement speed (and attack speed if you take it),
  • El’druin is a fantastic peel as well as a great juke tool, but realistically shouldn’t be used to engage.
  • Righteousness helps you defend allies taking AOE damage… but it is only about as much shielding as Carapace on Abathur. It’s a decent counter against Burst AOE (like Kael’thas flamestrike).

Here’s the talent’s I usually pick:
https://www.icy-veins.com/heroes/talent-calculator/tyrael#50.0!2231211

At level one, you want either Salvation if your the only tank on the team (though again, Tyrael is more of a support so it’s preferable if you are second tank.) or Justice for All, which significantly increases his ability to protect allies from burst.

At level four, Stalwart Angel is generally the go-to talent just because it helps you peel without dying, but I like Bound by Law as it turns El’druin into a psuedo-Earthbind Totem that you can teleport to.

At level seven, Reciprocate helps DPS in lane and in teamfight, but Swift Retribution is the only real choice here. Smite Evil is meme-worthy bad.

At level ten (espicially in unorganized play), Judgement is AMAZING. It isolates someone during a team fight, stuns for a long time, is great for initiation OR chasing, and can even be used for peel. The cooldown is remarkably short as well.

At level thirteen, the only real choice is Holy Ground. Just having that much extra bodyblocking helps you defend and chase super easily. If you teleport on top of someone with Holy Ground, it spits them out to the nearest side (which means if you throw the sword in front of your target and teleport, it’ll spit them out behind the Holy Ground.)

At level sixteen, all three of these choices are great.

  • Smite the Wicked gives you much more movement speed and attack speed if your playing proactively, and allows you to retreat even if you prior used Smite offensively.
  • Burning Halo gives decent teamfight potential, as well as GREAT chasing damage. Pick this if your team is lacking damage.
  • Hoardric Reforging is just… amazing. It has synergy with all of your talents, and lowering the cooldown isn’t hard.

At level 20, Holy Arena and Defense of the Angels are both garabge in QM. The choice comes down to either Angel of Justice (which allows you to isolate/chase way more often, 30 second cooldown is stupid good) or Seal of El’Druin (which buffs chasing potential greatly.


A few decent tips–

  • Throwing out Q: and waiting to teleport can be a great bait, as well as slowing the enemies for the maximum amount of time.
  • Smite should primarily be used defensively. NEVER use it for just damage unless someone is JUST out of your range and has only ~200 or so health. Instead, buff your allies with it or yourself while damage enemies at the same time if possible.
  • Righteousness… is just kinda lame. Throw it out if there’s AOE damage, but it really ensures that Tyrael is primarily a team player.
  • Using Judgement on enemy healers or in your enemies’ backline is a good idea most of the time, but don’t be afraid to use it to save an ally’s life. The cooldown is short, so use it often!

These are just a few tips for generally playing Tyrael. I’m not an expert on him, but this should help with learning him at the very least.

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When you realize you are about to die, walk towards the enemy and blow up on them with your trait. It is easy to tell a garbage Tyrael from a good one cause the bad ones just run away scared and waste their trait.

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So… I feel a lot more confident now, which is good, but I’m still feeling like I ain’t doing enough.
I’m focusing on using el’druin for its slow rather than the teleport, shielding people and stuff, but when the Team Fight starts I kinda run out of options.
both ults indeed seems good (my favorite is the one my teammates run off of it, but that’s not the hero’s fault), but when Muradin (or anything that can dive, really) jumps into my team I can’t do much, I usually try to bodyblock them or soak as much damage from the enemy as I can, which is when I retreat/die for basically nothing. Sometimes pleople just ignore me, I don’t seem to be able put enough pressure to force people out of my team e.e
The worst problem for me is that for Tyrael “being” a tank I’m usually matched against heavy CC while we have nothing and the only thing I can do is ult and explode on people.

From what you guys said too, Tyrael is pretty niche and it won’t get much better than this, at least not in QM, but I can’t quite get confident about using him in ranked for now.
also, I just want to learn about Tyrael because I like the character. It’s sad for me to like a character and not be good at it xD

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Yes you can! If muradin jumps into your teamates save smite and smite were your ally is to give a speed boost. Save your shields for stuff like that, so anticipate when that happens.

Also do a friendly reminder for people to step into smite for a speed boost

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I had a really nice game today as Tyrael. We lost, but imo, it still was nice, I sure had a lot of fun in it.
Maybe it can help by showing how to do or how to not do stuff :smiley:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/400938109619011585/704530251627233310/2020-04-27_231239_Battlefield_of_Eternity_almost_carry_justice.StormReplay

His speed boost at 7 is your main talent and function. Help people run help adc do more damage use it for your self to run.

There are a number of things that make Tyrael unique as a tank, and it is important to keep these in mind when tanking on him. He isn’t really an all-in tank like Diablo, and he isn’t a front line anchor like Johanna. If anything, he is almost a support hero in that he is strongest when enabling his team and countering what the enemy team wants to do.

Here is my most common build when tanking on him. Do note, he does have other perfectly viable builds, and I will use other talents when playing him as a bruiser, but since you were asking about tanking and solo queue QM, I am focusing on the talents that are pretty much universally decent.

Level 1 - Justice for All. Use your W whenever your team, or even just one team mate, is about to take burst damage. Also note that your enhanced W does apply to minions as well as heroes. I will often use it when pushing with a minion wave to allow them to take an extra tower shot or two, so I don’t have to.

Level 4 - Stalwart Angel. This can also help while pushing, and it helps counter the armor shred from towers/forts/keeps and allows you to stay in there a bit longer, which is often all that is needed for your team to bring down a structure.

Level 7 - Swift Retribution. Smite (E) is your bread and butter as Tyrael, and this makes it incredibly potent as an engage or disengage, so you can save Q for the fancier things.

Level 10 - Sanctification. This is always a safe pick, just make sure you use it before the nastiness hits, as it is easy to interrupt. Don’t get me wrong, Judgment is incredibly powerful, and so much fun to use, but you should learn when and how to use Sanc.

Level 13 - Holy Ground. Again, we are focusing on tanking, and Holy Ground can be used as a peel, area denial, isolating a kill target, and more. It can take some practice, but it is an amazing tool for a main tank.

Level 16 - If you need more damage, you can go Burning Halo, but I generally prefer Horadric Reforging, especially when I take Holy Ground at 13.

Level 20 - Defense of the Angels. You can now completely ignore the armor shred mechanic and you can set up a push that can lead to a win.

Regarding his abilities and how to use them:

Q - El’Druin’s Might. This is your main CC, escape, protection (with the armor talent at 4), mobility, and scouting tool. If you see a suspicious bush, throw a Q into it. Worst case, you put it on CD. Best case, there are enemies lurking, and now they are slowed, you have armor, and you could potentially disrupt and split them up with Holy Ground. Do not use Q as you main engagement tool in a team fight, as you want to save it for the armor buff when your health starts to drop, as an escape, or as a gap closer/slow when they want to leave.

W - Righteousness. This should be used when you have multiple allies near you to get the most value out of your level 1, to shield people from burst damage, or to beef up a minion wave. DO NOT SPAM THIS ABILITY! You should always be using it strategically, as W spam is main reason people have mana issues on him.

E - Smite. Since I typically take the level 7 talent to enhance the move and attack speed bonus, I will use this as my engage tool, and to buff any aggressive assassins/bruisers on my team. Practice placing Smite in places where your allies are guaranteed to run through it. It is also incredibly powerful for getting your team out of trouble, too. Again, DO NOT SPAM THIS! Use it to get in, or get out.

When playing Tyrael, he is amazing for enabling aggressive heroes who may or may not have escapes on their own, and can benefit from the attack or movement speed. Qhira, Imperius, TB Varian, Illidan, and Artanis are some of his favorite melee buddies. He can also enable a dive comp like no other tank, so heroes like Tracer, Genji, or Calamity Ming do very well with him. My favorite healers are aggressive and in melee range, so Rehgod, Kharazim, and Uther can shine with a good Tyrael.

If you have specific questions about things like engaging, Sanc use, or the like, let me know!

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QM, you say? Don’t ignore self-sustain build:

https://www.icy-veins.com/heroes/talent-calculator/tyrael#50.0!3322.33

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Hmm I had the opposite experience in solo QM on him. Its usually best to take the selfish talents for me because nobody really makes any use of the movement speeds and the invulnerabilities you throw out.

You gotta think of solo Tyrael as kinda like Yrel honestly. He can kinda tank but he is not a tank, he can kinda support but he isn’t a healer, he can kinda dps but isn’t a damage dealer. He is a nuisance pretty much. You need to find opportunities to dive the backline and disrupt them as much as possible.

Here is my preferred build and how I use him:

  • Salvation
  • Stalwart Angel
  • Reciprocate
  • Judgment usually
  • Sword of Justice
  • Burning Halo
  • Angel of Justice/Defense of the Angels

The build clearly focuses on you more than empowering random teammates and hoping they get value for you. In general, before level 13 you need to look out for lock down abilities, as soon as the enemies waste them you dive in and harass their backline.

Smite

Smite is your bread and butter, as its a good source of sustain damage and it adds up over time. Use it to wave clear in combination with your level 7 shield explosion for maximum wave clear potential and AOE damage during team fights. Spam smite if you have to, its the same mana cost as your shield and Q so if you don’t have any plans to use mana to dive in, just smite away these minions.

Eldruins Might

Q is mainly used to engage and gap close. It’s really good for engages because it applies a 25% slow on the enemies, letting you glue yourself to them and keep auto attacking and smiting. The general combo is:

Detect your dive target > W for protection > Q into them > Auto Attack and smite

The reason you wanna W first is because you want your burst combo to happen asap with your lvl7 explosion so you have more time to disengage with smite speed

Here is a variation of the combo with Judgment:

Detect target > W > Judgment > Smite and AA > save the Q to either chase them down or escape if you went in too deep.

Sword of Justice and Burning Halo

Hooowee this is my favourite combination for a reason. Level16 is where you get to be as annoying as possible. With the sword swap at level 13 you can basically dive whenever you feel like and STILL benefit from the armor at level4 AND have an escape ready AND gain great wave clear due to the bonus damage from lvl16 after you teleport twice.

With these talents you can keep doing what you were doing up to now but way easier and way safer as long as the enemies don’t hard lock you down with every single CC they have, which may still get you a win because they used everything on you and not your teammates.

This is essentially this builds entire playstyle, get deep into their backline squishies and harrass the ever living crap out of them so that they focus so much on you and waste cooldowns on you, only to for you to teleport back.

All the Tyrael combos I mentioned here for this build

Before level 13:
Detect squishy > Identify whether or not they can stun lock you hard > W > Q into them > Smite AA > retreat

Or

Detect squishy and CC > W > Q away into a safe spot > Judgment or if not walk up to someone from a sneaky angle > AA and Smite for as long as your Q lasts > Q out

After level 13:
Detect squishy > W > Q in > glue yourself to them and Smite AA > Q out while laughing

Bonus tips
  • Salvation at lvl1 will let you solo lane easier and grant you protection while diving deep later so don’t hesitate to use W while laning against someone.

  • While diving in with sword swap throw your Q in from max range, walk back a bit, then teleport to your target. This is done so that you create more distance between you and your enemies after you Q out while escaping

  • If you feel like taking Sanc to stop an enemy butcher maybe, always Q into your teammates cause otherwise they will do anything in their power to avoid the invulnerable X)

Let me make an example, the enemies have a Butcher silence ult and so their winning condition is to silence you. You have to stand to the side a bit so that you dot get stunned and silenced yourself and then Q into your teammates and Sanc to save them

Hopefully this helped. Let me know if you had any success with this build if you ever actually try it. Im interested to see if more people are willing to play this type of Tyrael

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YAY, I’ve been playing a bit, my skinny shields seem a lot more effective than it used to, focusing on buffing my allies so that they can fend for themselves while I do stuff seems to work pretty well * - *
I feel like I’m my team’s father: “take this boots, sword and shield, go out there and do your best, I’ll hold the line for you, and I’ll be here when you get back! shining badass face*”
Knowing that I shouldn’t be going face first as I do with other tanks helped me a lot, now i’m positioning better (I think it’s better, at least now It feels like i’m doing something)

I felt like an armless zeratul wearing a castle and that’s awesome xD
I found that this type of build works better when the enemy don’t have much coordination/crowded composition, I tend to play it as a support with dive capabilities, which seems to sit at a good spot.

at this point i’m pretty confident of what and when to do stuff, but if I were to play in organized matches, like ranked, what do people usually expect from their Tyrael teammates?

Guys, thanks a lot for the help, about 2 days ago I had no idea of what was the right thing to do with tyrael, to a point where I wouldn’t risk trying him out after a failure. Now I can see him as valid as any other hero with his own flaws and strenghts! I finally feel… free *satisfaction breath

also, is it okay to /dance when i’m about to die? xD

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Its true in coordinated team comps other builds work that empower allies more. But even in some coordinated environments if you go for sword of justice you can pressure enemies to bait a few cooldowns on you and you can overall dive in with allies with much more security but ye, thats mainly if youre a bruiser tbh.

Theres also E build for maximum AA damage for bruiser build but it doesn’t provide as much burst protection. Its mostly fine against sustained damage but very mana costy.

Either way the more you use him the more you’ll understand his talent tree

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Great to hear. Don’t forget that you can and often should throw your sword behind you during or even before an engage – it’s not just for slowing enemies, but for juking enemy cooldowns or escaping when they collapse on you.

I recommend giving JHow’s guide a listen.

I don’t agree with all of his assessments on most heroes, but definitely worth thinking over.

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They expect solid initiations, use of Q to peel and constantly reposition, and the perfectly timed Sanctifications. Tyrael is probably the most picked tank at the highest ranks on EU, and there are a number of excellent matches that showcase him. Mascarade and Berghult (sp?) are the two best Tyrael players in HotS right now. Here is an example of one of the series. Pay close attention to their positioning and Sanc use, and don’t worry about the clever tricks for now.

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Tyrael is to be played with 4 other people who know what they are doing. If you play him in QM. Your results will be totally random.

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Tyrael has huge mana problems and an outdated design, not worth picking up imo