Guys, I had a revelation!

[GeorgeV-2539]

Ok, one last post to clear up some misunderstandings:

@anon55086273

I fail to see what’s not logical about that.

@anon55086273

Again, I fail to see how that doesn’t fit.

And that is exactly the problem, and a major reason why I am done with this discussion. Whenever I give you a counterargument to your ideas, or a reason why one might prefer otherwise, you either ignore it or fail to understand it.

I don’t mind disagreeing with arguments or opinions (a lot of ‘this is good/bad’ is subjective anyway), but when you refuse to even acknowledge or engage with my arguments this is basically talking to a wall. You give a suggestion. I point out why I dislike it. You just repeat your suggestion as if nothing happened. It’s pointless.

Again, I don’t care if you prefer your idea for Abathur (for example), or think the improvements would be worth the potential downsides. But if you can’t even understand why it might be considered a bad idea, there’s really no point talking any further.

@anon55086273

Also, those are only suggestions that perfectly fit on their current gameplay, other things could be done instead if necessary. I fail to see how it can’t be fixed.

Try providing an actual fix to these issues first then. One that doesn’t raise further ones. It’s easy to claim you can solve them, but actually solving them without incurring other downsides is a lot harder. Every idea sounds perfect when you can just go ‘can be fixed’ on any potential flaw. It’s also hard to hold a sensible discussion when one side can just dismiss any argument with ‘can be fixed’.

I say I can swim in lava. People have pointed out that that’s a bad idea, but I’m sure it can be fixed.

@anon55086273

You just keep adding more and more excuses (most of the time contradictory to yourself

That’s mostly because I disagree with your idea on so many levels, and I tried to address all of them. You also kept adding more versions and dimensions to your idea, each with new different problems that I then tried to also address.

I admit that it might’ve sounded contradictory though, especially when discussing things that I was entirely against in the first place. I probably should’ve just stopped at ‘support is not a role’ and completely dismissed the rest of your post as irrelevant, rather than essentially going ‘Your idea is wrong because of X, and even if it wasn’t, it’d still be wrong because of Y’.

Also you seem to keep mistaking me acknowledging something as a valid viewpoint as somehow agreeing with it. For example, I agree ‘Abathur should be a Healer’ is a possible opinion to have, and you can certainly make some arguments for it. That’s not contradictory to me thinking it a bad idea, or somehow agreeing it’d be a good one. I just admit that an opposing view is possible.

@anon55086273

some that are already explained or covered previously

Maybe stop repeating the same things that I’ve already covered, and I stop giving you the same counterarguments to them.

@anon55086273

That’s your subjective opinion, and given the support (no pun intended) to this thread, I say you are minority in here.

If you say so. Given how every post (bar one) in this thread has been people pointing out why your idea is flawed, I’d think you are the minority though.

But you are right about it being a subjective opinion. So is yours. Let’s not pretend the whole idea of ‘support role needs changes’ is anything more than a subjective opinion either.

@anon55086273

Most of them, and the ones you don’t, you usually are not reading them well, as I stated above…

I’d say the opposite. You seem to be the one misreading or misunderstanding my posts, especially if you somehow think I agree with most of your points. Let’s make this very clear: I dislike every idea you’ve come up with so far.

The only parts I agree with are the general statements of how some things aren’t perfect (but I disagree with how much of problem it is, as well as with your solution), or how it’s indeed possible to change things. (But while possible, I still think those’d be bad changes).

@anon55086273

(unless you want it dead, that’s it, I like HotS, i love Hots! I want it to become better and reemerge).

Oh please, I’d hoped you were better than that troll reasoning. Try finding actual arguments why your idea is good, rather than pretending the game is bad just to make anything else seem good in comparison.

And for clarity, I love HotS (I think it’s safe to assume most people here do). That’s why I’m so against your idea, as it would make HotS vastly worse in my opinion.

@anon55086273

Let’s do this, friend. Try iron-manning my argument instead. Let’s see what happens. I will do the same for yours. Deal?

I’m sorry, I’ve never heard of that term. I’m guessing it’s a new way to call the ‘you defend my argument, I defend yours’ thought exercise one can do in debates? In that case, I’ll have to decline. That sounds even more pointless than continuing this discussion. That exercise only has merit when both sides have solid knowledge of the topic, and can at least understand the respective arguments enough to argue either side. I consider you capable of neither at this point.

I’m done here. Let’s agree to disgree, and have a nice day.

[anon55086273]

@GeorgeV-2539

Whenever I give you a counterargument to your ideas, or a reason why one might prefer otherwise, you either ignore it or fail to understand it.
I don’t mind disagreeing with arguments or opinions (a lot of ‘this is good/bad’ is subjective anyway), but when you refuse to even acknowledge or engage with my arguments this is basically talking to a wall. You give a suggestion. I point out why I dislike it. You just repeat your suggestion as if nothing happened. It’s pointless.

Back at ya’, my friend! (But I’m willing to iron-man you, you don’t want to do the same, 'cause you know you have no real point).

@GeorgeV-2539

I say I can swim in lava. People have pointed out that that’s a bad idea, but I’m sure it can be fixed.

Swimming in lava is not part of HotS (or any other Blizzard game, by that matter). How is that even relevant? What you are doing is not only a strawman but an exaggeration (and very hard by that). Jumping from the subject, a videogame by Blizzard and its gameplay, where every point made is directly related to it, to a IRL scenario that is obvious. That’s called desperation due to lacking proper argument.

@GeorgeV-2539

and I tried to address all of them

But you address none. As I carefully explained through the long replies-chain. Easily explaining each one.

@GeorgeV-2539

Maybe stop repeating the same things that I’ve already covered, and I stop giving you the same counterarguments to them.

Same goes back at you again, buddy.

@GeorgeV-2539

I’d say the opposite. You seem to be the one misreading or misunderstanding my posts, especially if you somehow think I agree with most of your points. Let’s make this very clear: I dislike every idea you’ve come up with so far.

But you dislike just because, and is noticeable. Not by logic or any deeply studied reason.
I’m willing to iron-man your argument, but you are not willing to do the same to mine… 'Cause you know the weakness in your approach, while I’m very secure in mine. There is not a point you have said that I have not solved. Now, you just noticed you can’t go any further before you expose yourself as, simply, having and empty argument. Logic and reasoning are difficult to use and beat, indeed.

Bye, have a nice day you to. Thank you for your thoughts.

[Tooton-1952]

If you were referring to LoL then sure let support heroes have a chance. This game isn’t designed like LoL and you NEED a healer on your team (anti-meta players be damned)