Consider making his (E) Swift Strike +15-20% increased range.
He’s a very hero-comp dependent hero, like Illidan, and provides 0 CC for the team. ZERO.
You need to show him so love especially after Qhira and Xalatath now in the game. It feels wrong. Maybe deflect does more dmg or something. ty
Yes, Genji has been in need of buffs for years now, but his mobility is NOT what should be increased. He needs to be able to actually deal damage.
What would you do to increase his damage? I think Dragon Blade needs a buff also.
while I would normally agree that a hero with such a low winrate needs buffs, the problem is that genji is such a volatile hero that, if allowed chunk heroes on his own, becomes severely frustrating with his resets on dragon strike allowing him to zip around the battlefield.
The main reason he was put into this state was from pro-play after all.
Simply switch his focus from finishing off enemies with E to harassing the enemy team with Basic Attacks and Q. There is currently no reason to pick him over Zeratul.
This is because most of his power budget is put into his E. It also does not help that he is one of the hardest characters in the game.
Yet another proof that shaping the game entirely around pro play has its downsides. Genji would not perform so poorly in most ranks if he was truly overpowered.
@Smile: I agree. Maybe let Deflect do more dmg since he’s a clutch hero anyway.
@ChiptuneSoul: Dragonblade’s damage is fine, but it’s cooldown could be reduced from 100 sec to 90 I suppose.
@SMILE: “Simply switch his focus from finishing off enemies with E to harassing the enemy team with Basic Attacks and Q. There is currently no reason to pick him over Zeratul.”
I would prefer to keep him as a finisher, that’s why i’d like the range of his slide to be increased by 10-20%. And yes, there is basically never a reason to pick Genji, in any match lol.Lastly, this game does not reward killing blows or kills at all for that matter.
The newer heroes have stackable quests at least, but I’d like to see Genji have some sort of scaling power if he is effective early and mid gameMaybe lower his dragonblade by 10 sec if he gets a killing blow?? anything… he’s horrific
No. This makes him stronger against bad players only.
No. This is exactly why he can never be actually strong.
No. Stackable quests are hurting the game more and more. Genji should not share the same fate.
I think Dragonblade just needs a shorter cooldown and a longer duration.
Stackable quests create alternative win conditions. I have no idea why you got such a stick up your rear about it. You hate them persistently but can’t give any legitimate reasons other than perhaps you might choose dings over a better talent. The point of quests is to give the characters a chance an opportunity to close the game out if the game goes on too long and most of them are hard enough to stack you won’t hit mythic unless the enemy team can’t dodge.
The only way this works is if you also buff x strike. X strike as an escape for genji is nice and its wonderful way for him to get low health kills, but it pales in comparison to dragon blades dmg potential. The only time x strike is really viable over dragon blade is in situations with high CC or when diving on their backline is difficult to do. Because of how his q spreads most of the time if they are low enough to ult you could’ve just e-> qed them instead.
All they need to honestly do to make him better is either increase his mana efficiency or increase his waveclear. If you look at the bottom 8 characters in the roster they all share the same weakness which is that functionally their clear sucks. Medihv is slightly better than the other 7, but still really bad at camps. And I absolutely hate peoples excuse of “he gets so much mobility to his weakness is clear.” His weakness is his mana efficiency he doesn’t need to also be weak in clear. Even if you buffed his minion/camp dmg by 10% he’d still be bad at it without making him down right useless. Genji’s mana efficiency compared to basically every other ranged unit is garbo. If you exclude characters that can refund mana basekit in the ranged and melee category he has the second highest mana costing kit for a ranged dps only 5 points behind KT who can also not only self heal if he chooses, but deal more dmg than genji and also has CC on top of it and better clear alongside having relatively good dmg at a safe distance. Genji on the other hand has a terrible poke option as long range and only is effective in close proximity where a single point and click stun can delete him.
To give you an idea how bad his wave clear is and his efficiency unless he gets a kill one set of all his abilities costs about 205 mana. At roughly 3.8-4.2 mana a second if he cast all of his abilities off CD genji would run out of mana in about 30-36 seconds and would’ve probably only done about 75% of his base dmg potential with said dmg excluding his W because thats impossible to calculate. If he lands most of his qs we’ll assume two per use which is still highly unlikely that means his dmg potential for one target in 36 seconds is about: 1,740 which is pathetic. Now lets assume this is a teamfight and he also gets 8 hits per cast of W which again is unlikely that still only adds 1,300 dmg. So every 32 seconds genji can cap out around 3k dmg and then he has to hearth or tap. Li ming only pressing q can do 4,500 and burn less than a third of her mana in the process if she hits the same target with all 3. Even if she only lands two hits its still the same as genjis dmg.
Saying “alternative win conditions” when it is “one dimensional gameplay pattern that punishes the enemy team for interacting with you” in reality. Stop the delusion.
Because I am actually playing the game and can see how worse it has become since they started adding such quests back. It is like you are intentionally being ignorant.
I already did. Many times. You refuse to listen.
Before they started adding them back, you used to win such games with skill and effort. Now, it is all about who has the better stacking machine.
Do you not see the irony here? Do you seriously not realise why punishing your opponent for interacting with you is fundamentally broken?
There is no need to buff it. It is already the only choice 90% of the time.
Mana efficiency??? How are you running out of mana as Genji???
Dude this is so wrong I really wonder what world you are living in. First off just because a quest is there doesn’t mean its the right call even if its infinite, secondly its not one dimension the talents completely change the way certain champs play and third punishes you for interacting? Are you smoking crack? If you step into a melees range you should be punished for it same for if you can’t dodge skill shots. The skill volumn hasn’t changed to who has the better stacker because fundamentally each champ has their own weaknesses and those are plus or minus based on your team. Malganis for example his quest whilst it is the more often picked one does not beat time to feed out by a landslide. Both have their place and both answer different problems. You can choose quest and win with it in bad situations, but I guarentee if you take it into a burst comp with squishy backline your just gonna chain feed. Personally I’d love to see everyone get one of these quests because it creates a situation where everyone has additional answers to problems. Like orphea for example her lv 1 quest gives a massive buff, but you gotta hit three people with it which is really hard to do. Part of the game is denying people their quests so your team doesn’t lose when they get ramped. There’s nothing wrong with quests other than people taking dings over better situational talents, but thats not a problem with the design thats a problem with the players. And qhiras quest fixed her. Early game she was really strong, but then late game she became weak until 20. Even if it was overtuned where shes at now is fine. If you can’t dodge skill shots I’m sorry but its a skill issue.
Yeah and despite this being true that it is the more often picked ult both ults have a sub 50% wr and x strike is only picked less than 2% more. Its not a wide enough gap to make that claim. Also I wonder if you ever actually check stats for talents or if you just fly by the seat of your pants.
As for your mana efficiency question. I already told you why I run out of mana with genji, but appearently you didn’t read that. He has the highest cost mana kit out of all the dps, without mana reduction talents/builds given his dmg with his only “mana reduction” being his e which he can’t even get unless he confirms a kill. He literally has a 205 mana cost with no mana regen / reduction talents. Most champs can cast all their abilities 3-4 times and also get mana reduction. Genji gets a max of 3 and also has poor clear with less overall dmg. He takes forever to clear with his aa so you have to use shuriken to clear and thats not cheap either. If he could clear quicker he could at least use the regen orbs and stay in field, but if you gotta consistently fight he runs out of mana quicker than any other dps excluding probius, but even then probius has mana regen and so does everyone else thats got a more expensive kit. Genji’s mana gets punished in his kit cost for literally no reason desite having less dmg minimum than basically every other non zoning character. Even nova has a cheaper kit with mana reduction despite filling the exact same role as genji.
I like this. Do you think he should have a rework considering 3 different builds? for example at talent 1 it can get 3 different paths: Basic Attack build, Swift Strike build, and probably either shuriken or Deflect build? Leaving either shuriken or deflect as part of his basic kit.
McIntyre released a YouTube video 2 days ago placing Genji as the 2nd-highest ranged assassin in the game to climb Storm League with…
He cited his mobility, wave clear, ability to siege, ability to camp, ability to get picks, virtual unkillability, and team fight presence. His downside was below average 1v5 push defense.
For my own games… Genji is an unpleasant nuisance for the whole game, Zeratul can be largely ignored until L16.
One of HotS’s selling points is its positioning as a team game. If your team gets a kill, your team gets xp, map control, and likely wins whatever objective is up. The more value added for kills, the more snowbally the game becomes. I’d prefer to see no extra, character-specific value added for kills unless it is thematically logical for that character.
Who? No, seriously, who?
Wave clear? Siege?? Virtual unkillability???
Watch some of the HGC tournament pre-maintenance.
You would see that ever since release, Genji has been continously nerfed every few months, and still always First Pick/First Ban material. He still is.
And the way hero balancing works is: They have to balance for the highest level of skills, not the 99% of players. That’s why you don’t see Abathur or Medivh getting any buff. They’re insanely strong at top-level despite having lowest win rate for a long time.
For some heroes, they managed to balance it for most players without affecting top-level. For example, the Stealth rework, so that everyone can also see Stealthed Zeratul like top-level. With Genji, not so simple.
This simply isn’t true and if you guys WOULD EVER check the stats page, we have access to you would see that this isn’t the case. His overall winrate is 45.72%. Popularity is almost 8%, but his pick and ban rate are bad. He gets picked 5.7% of the time and he gets banned less than 3% of the time. But you guys must be talking high rank right? Well between masters and diamond his popularity etc does go up. Instead of being the 6th lowest on the roster he goes up to the 7th lowest on the roster. Lets pop the confetti canons. Popularity 15% ok he’s looking more playable, pick rat 10% ok not bad gets picke d a decent amount. Ban rate less than 5%. You know what this says? He might get picked a lot more in high rank, but no matter how good you are with him, even in the highest rank he’s a bad character. The only reason his win percent goes up in high rank is because they draft him in his optimal setting. IE A comp he never actually has to clear in and has several multi hit champs.
The video he released 9 months ago was of him into a comp he’d do well into IE lots of multihiitting champs or in games where his team has a lot of burst to quickly lower the enemy team HP. He’s not a top character to carry with and I don’t care what the pros say. In Anywhere from Silver to Platinum, You get a vast majority of teams that love to aram more than soak and if you’re not setting up kills for your genji he’s not going to be dominating. Genji mostly only comes online once he gets his ultimate and even then if they have more than two to three CCs or a point and click you still basically can’t engage. His wave clear is abysmally bad he has no ability to clear camps until lv 13 and he’s very easily killable. Of course if your team did not draft any kind of hard CC of course genji is going to have more freedom to do as he pleases, hes a mobility assassin. Even Fan talks about how you have to coordinate around helping your genji, which is one of the main reasons he loses so often. If you’re drafting a poke champ that cannot confirm kills on their own genji is going to suffer for it. Even if he can pick up the slack he’s going to be punished. Well and for the last time he has abysmal clear.
No.
Balancing is done around TOP rank, not high rank. Tournament level.
thats dumb. Balancing a champ exclusively around their highest end is the exact reason genji is at the bottom of the latter. You balance the champ around where the higher level mmr, but low enough a good enough percentage can actually hit it. If you’re making balance patches for less than 10% of your community your not only demonizing the other 90% but you also are just blatantly going to make a champ that does not perform the way they are supposed to in the biggest portion of ranked. A champs strength should never be around the rank of pro play
He got target banned in OW high rank because one person was good with him. Just because at high rank he decides when he dies does not mean he’s overpowered. And there’s a really simple way of fixxing it if thats the felt issue. Nerf his e range slightly so these morons can quit complaining about his engage range and the buff his dmg so he’s less mobile and more damaging. Its really that simple. And if thats not enough the reset it so it doesn’t refund his e cost just the cooldown and the work mana into a different portion of his kit. Its really not that difficult. I can give a million ideas on how to best rework him its just they don’t want to.
You’re entitled to your opinions.
I am entitled to my opinions, but it is also just factually and empirically dumb. The only reason that games should be balanced around pro play is if we actually have a consistent ongoing esports that makes money. We do not. Even then balancing your game to make .3% of your player basis happy isn’t a sound marketing choice. This game only has the possibility of making money off new content or pro play and there’s 0 chance of us getting pro play if the majority of the fanbase is unhappy with the gameplay as is. Alienating your audience is how you end up bankrupt. Its effectively the same as JK rowling making her harry potter books and then telling everyone that likes it she hated writing harry’s parts even though thats the core of the story. HOTS isn’t an esports anymore and it hasn’t been in years. Even if it does become an esports champs still shouldn’t be based around the highest ranking players unless said player is just absolutely unstoppable. Genji is 100% stoppable, but he does completely counter comps without good clear and CC. There’s nothing wrong with a character working in the element they are supposed to. What is wrong is when they functionally underperform over half the time because the niche situation they are designed for effectively doesn’t happen most of the time and then they are also further punished with a kit thats expensive as all hell but basically less efficient that every other dps’s kit.
He’s an ex pro, has a YouTube channel. Type in “mcintyre ranged assassin tier list” in the search bar in YouTube and it’ll pop up. The video I mentioned was posted 5 days ago.
That’s what he said =/ He can do a lot of things well and if you die with him it’s because you made a mistake, not because the enemy team made a play. Stuff like that.
There’s a new one that came out 5 days ago.
This… If a hero-assassin can do what they’re designed to do without team support, irrespective of the enemy team, they can pop off and wreck a game.
So… Tuning heroes based on pro performance, the closest we get to ideal/perfect play, is the correct choice. But… then it is admittedly tough to balance the higher skill-cap heroes for everyone else.