Forced 50% winrate is real and Blue Lied again

I’ve never been able to find it again. A lot of things get deleted from Reddit. It’s not a good archive tool anymore. Hasn’t been that way for several years. It was also attacked and ridiculed into oblivion at the time, so it’s just not practical to find it. I didn’t know about archive websites at the time. Who knows if someone archived it.

So essentially,

Source: Trust me bro

To top it all off,

even when this study was “posted”, people thought it was ridiculous. Hmmm… :thinking:

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And even then it statisticly is still possible to happen as the enemy might have had a similar troll making it effectively a 4v4 again. Or by randomness teams ended up unbalanced anyway.

  1. You’re clearly posting on a smurf account so any word you have to convey via experience is going to be by your word only. There isn’t a match-history to go with your claims of experience, so anything could be made up, bad recollection, conflated memories, or spouting the ‘friend of a friend of a friend’ type flaws.
  2. The value of someone’s word stems from verifiable accounts. What you have so far are bad recollections, dated information, and the inability to click the “Dev Tracker” button and find this page:https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/heroes/g/heroes-developer/activity/posts?category_id=6
  3. Most issues pertaining to mmr matching tend to stem from ignorance, confirmation bias, and lacking skills of observation. Good job on a successful batting average there.
  4. Of your claims to side evidence, you don’t provide any links to said claims. Heck, even though people have posted rainbow matches (in low population servers) you don’t even put in the effort to try to post those.
  5. So far the leading effect for your claims is to try to act like blaming others magically improves your presentation. It does not.
  6. What you call an ‘argument’ doesn’t do anything to set itself apart from confirmation bias, suggest it’s sample size isn’t outside of standard deviation (ie, exceptions to the norm) and it does not offset the word it claims to be ‘lying’ as there is both lacking of substance, a lack of representation of their actual word, and only your word alone to try to back the claim.

So by pretty much any worthwhile metric, you haven’t provided anything worthwhile, and yet think yourself to have done so. If your concern was that blizz said issues of mmr are due to dunning-krueger, you’ve done a better job of confirming that to be the case so far than of proving it incorrect.

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I’m a little surprised to what lengths some of you are still willing to go to after all these years to entertain OP. There is a dozen of similar topics within two mousewheel scrolls and you’ve reached the same conclusion in all of them.

I don’t know why I would make this stuff up. I’ve played this game on and off since launch week. I’ve seen it all.
Everything critical of the game was ridiculed and downvoted into oblivion. I do recall the study getting decent upvotes, but it was gaslit and attacked with ad hominem bs.
The Subreddit has almost always been useless for objective discourse.

@Xenterex, I know all the arguments, okay. I’ve seen posts like yours dozens of times. It doesn’t disprove my experience. Thanks for the link. I did try to use it and I didn’t see it. It was too mixed with other crap. I just didn’t see it. Here it is.

You want to prove me wrong in a court of law, go right ahead. I know what I’ve experienced. I’ve seen the loading screens with the rank disparities. I’ve seen the total lack of skill attached to those ranks. I have several thousand games under my belt, so I know what I’m talking about. I’m not going to open my account up to damages like I have in the past. The censorship and punishments around here in this community are absolutely the most insane I’ve ever seen in my entire life of gaming. Nobody cares that the game lost players except the people that left and enjoyed what the game could have been, the rare matches that felt even, the matches that felt devoid of manipulations. If you don’t want to believe me, enjoy your life. I don’t care. I will still be heard.

Yes because something which happened 3+ years ago is valid today… True or not.

My big problem with believing this is I don’t see it happening the other way. I have had a 9 game losing streak in bronze and every game I’m still grouped with bronze, never a silver in sight much less a gold.

On the other side long win streaks never seem to detract from the ranks of my team mates.

Also I have watched several streams of people playing at all different ranks and I feel like especially at the top three leagues there is less difference in skill than people make it seem like.

Those are just my observations.

One difficulty with making even matches with newer players is that every new player who comes in is a complete unknown for the skill rating system. In order to place you in games with players of similar skill, the system needs to first learn your skill, and the only way it can do that is looking at the results of games you play. The general assumption of most Elo-like rating systems, including ours, is that better players win more, less skilled players win less often, and if a player is appropriately rating they will win about half of their games. Each game you play should be with players around your current rating, but if that rating is inaccurate the games could be uneven, and cause either winning or losing streaks for you. As your recorded rating becomes more accurate, this should level off.

We’ve seen some responses in this thread regarding a “Forced 50% win rate,” and we’d like to lay that to rest: The goal of the matchmaker and rating system is not to have every player win 50% of their matches, but rather to bring every player to skill rating where they are expected to win 50% of their matches due to being matched against other players of comparable skill. The matchmaker will not punish a player for winning a majority of their games by intentionally pairing them with other players of lower skill rating. If you are an excellent player and go on a 10 game winning streak, the matchmaker has no obligation to stop you from continuing to win. What will happen is that the game sees you performing at a higher skill level and will try to match you with and against higher skilled players to see if you can continue to win, or start to level off.

You mention wonky compositions, which is one piece of feedback we hear regularly. The Quick Match composition builder is not designed to form the absolute best composition for every player. Some heroes have higher winrates than others, are easier to play, or fit more in the current popular meta; we don’t want our systems to force compositions to always match the current professional composition trends. That means that you will see that wonkiness, especially if you play less popular, stranger heroes like Cho’Gall, Murky, Lost Vikings, or Abathur. I personally enjoy trying to find ways to make those strange compositions work, but if you prefer a bit more predictability in your compositions, I encourage you to look for parties in the New Player chat, on community sites, and among friends; you might also try the Unranked Draft mode, where you can more carefully plan a composition.

Regarding learning opportunities, I’d like to bring your attention to the series of Core Concepts blogs that we’ve recently began to publish. Heroes is a different beast from other MOBAs and puts a much stronger focus on certain aspects of the game which are highlighted in these blogs. (First and foremost, teamwork is paramount!) Much of this information has been available since the game’s inception, but the series aims to collect the major introductory points into a centralized location. To that end, we also acknowledge the feedback that this would be welcome info that’s provided within the game.

is the matchmaker working in the way we want? Personally, I’m not going to attempt to answer such a question. I see places that could potentially improve, and to be perfectly honest I haven’t come away from this with absolute faith in the matchmaker. But at the same time, I’m not sure if such improvements can come without repercussions in the form of queue timer increases or, hell, even just that esoteric “game feel” that developers so frequently chase. What we have here is, after all, somewhere close to the general hope for any matchmaker: an appropriate mitigation of the worst combinations, not their outright erasure.

Yet at the same time, I pursued this project in the hopes that it would spark some discussion. So I’m going to end this with a few juicy statements to get the ball rolling. 1) You’re wrong: that rank whatever player did not actually throw the game for you. Or at least, it wasn’t the fault of their rank. It was more likely the fault of their attitude. Probability suggests you’ve played games with lots of rank whatevers and you haven’t even noticed. 2) You’re right: the matchmaker is sending you into a stomp now and then. Not a whole lot of them. In fact, it is most likely that the majority of stomps you’ve experienced were simply a throw in a game that could have gone either direction. But if you’ve played more than fifty games, probability suggests you’ve experienced a handful of inevitable outcomes.

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Considering the source of this statement is an engineer who works on the matchmaking, that should permanently put the issue to rest.

But as anyone who reads the forums knows, nothing will happen and the same thread will pop up every 3 days just like surrender threads.

People will complain about this “forced 50%” as long as the game will exist even when multiple developers say it isn’t true.

If shown examples like Fan who keep accumulating win after win without being “forced” to lose, they suddenly have nothing to say.
Or player profiles far, far below 50% especially in Bronze.

Any thread has a permanent link on reddit that cannot be removed, it can be accessed but will end up with [ removed ] if that specific topic was deleted manually by a mod or the OP themselves.

Terminated accounts do not automatically remove any topic that was there.

If you know the specific link for the post just replace reddit.com with https://removeddit.com/ in the link, its an automatic archive.

Should, which is why they issued the statement that way. Doesn’t mean it’s true. Just means Blizzard is making a more firm stance in their deceit. Before they tried to gaslight by stating the Dunning Kruger bs, but now they issue this because the posts persist.

People will complain about the “forced 50%” as long as the game will exist

Because it’s real.

That is a direct quote from the senior game designer for HotS, Adam Jackson.

That has no bearing on my argument.
In fact it may prove why there is a forced 50% winrate, to break the streaks.
Just because winstreaks happen, doesn’t mean rank disparity should fluctuate as much as it does against your favor.

Did you even read this part?

You can always go on that topic and correct the developer with sources for why it isn’t false.

Yes, I’ve read it, which is why I made this thread. Blizzard is lying. I’ve seen my teammate ranks go down and my opponent ranks go up. How hard is this for people to understand? Seriously makes me want to cry from being surrounded by people that have no idea what they’re talking about.

You know what’s dumb about this whole theory, you are assuming the system is signalling you out and is trying to wreck your win rate and just your win rate and everyone else in the team was paired with you just for you to lose and you alone.

Like if this system were true then your entire team would need to be classed as ‘low ranked winners ready to lose’ and the enemy team as ‘high ranked losers who deserve to win’…

Don’t you see the contradiction in the whole scenario? You need a team of 5 that have each individually been winning massively but still have a relatively low rank and another separate team that have also been individually losing loads while still being at a much higher rank.

Not just that but how sophisticated would the system need to be to accurately and deliberately sabotage games.

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I know. It’s ridiculous and shouldn’t happen! Yet it has several times to me.

You’re not very good at making arguments.
If you want to call the company liars you have to show proof, statistics, evidence.

The dev already said it’s not true. If you call him a liar then give proof of those lies.

Your only source so far is “because I say so”.

Nobody forces you to lose games.

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I’m looking for someone that posted a comment in that thread that had the same experience as me. Why would I make this all up lol