Is not a fair combination of talents. It allows hanzo to oneshot a minion wave from a full screen away meanwhile taking half your hp bar if you’re near it. Pls reconsider balance.
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Don’t stand in a minion wave that late in the game? Pretty easy counterplay to that.
Whether the waveclear is overpowered is up for debate. Personally, I don’t think Hanzo should have waveclear. It’s kind of like PvE calamity. A hero who can do so much in PvP should not have the capability to just delete minion waves like that
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The same could be said about Sylvanas’ Unstable Poison, and yet it was changed to affect non-heroes only because, according to Blizzard, “it felt miserable to be chunked just because you were close to your minions”. But then again, OW heroes’ entire gig is making you feel miserable when facing them so I guess it fits.
Anyways, specifically Hanzo aside, PvE talents should be PvE talents and PvP should be PvP. A PvE talent shouldn’t also give a conditional hero nuke which also rewards you with doing more damage to the unfortunate hero than if you nailed them directly. Hero damage should be completely removed there a-la Unstable Poison.
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Considering that Hanzo is actually UP for the majority of players - I say it’s fine.
2 Likes
While I could be convinced to agree that stat changes are in order…
Is no one going to touch the fact that this is a combination of two talents, one of which doesn’t come into play until level 16?
Sylvanas’ Unstable Poison dealt significantly more damage than Hanzo’s Explosive + Piercing Arrows, and it could deal that damage way earlier in the game. It made laning against her an utter nightmare, unlike anything currently in the game.
Unstable Poison dealt 142 damage at level 4 per minion, of which there are 7. If you were standing in the center of the wave, she could chunk you for 994 damage at level 4.
Hanzo? He could only deal 440 damage at that same level back when Explosive Arrow did 100% damage and with Target Practice completed. Now, at 75% damage on EA, that’s only 330 damage.
If we scale it up to level 16, where Hanzo finally gets Piercing Arrows and reaches his maximum wave-clearing and AoE ability, he’ll be dealing 968 damage.
By comparison, Sylvanas would be dealing 1,589 damage.
Let’s put these damage values in perspective.
Valla is one of the lowest-health “normal health” (not Murky, TLV, or Abathur) heroes in the game, coming in at 1,273 base health.
At level 4, Valla’s maximum health is 1,489.
Sylvanas’ Unstable Poison’s 994 damage is over 66% (2/3s) of Valla’s maximum health.
Hanzo’s Explosive Arrow’s 330 damage is only 22% of Valla’s maximum health.
At level 16, Valla’s maximum health is 2,384.
Sylvanas’ 1,589 damage is still over 66% of Valla’s maximum health.
Hanzo’s 968 damage only grows to 40% of Valla’s maximum health.
So, again, Hanzo’s DB build deals far less damage than Sylvanas’ old Unstable Poison did, and it can only do that damage much later in the game than Sylvanas could.
6 Likes
I agree that pierce + minion wave goes a little too easy. not because of the hitting heroes but on tomb you can push every wave with hanzo alone from a safe distance
Unstable Poison damage stacking got removed after 3 months of Sylv release.
At the moment Blizzard thought its “unfun” (1+ year after stacking nerf) and made it not affect heroes, it dealt less damage than Hanzo.
Explosive Arrows - lvl 4
Unstable Poison - used to be lvl 7
Unstable Poison vs Explosive Arrows is valid comparison.
do u guys remember when explosive arrow had 150% dmg instead of 75%?
u were able to 1shot assassin with single Q if spell power was stacked
Pretty sure it was 100%.
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No I don’t.
Because that never happened.
I feel someone mixed Serrated Arrows changes with Explosive Arrows changes.
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That would explain it.
Honestly, Serrated Arrows should be reverted to 150% bonus damage. The change to Never Outmatched has eliminated the issue with him speed capping Bosses and mercs.
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Don’t balance around potato league
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It’s not about damage numbers, it’s about the idea itself. If at that time devs thought having to play dodgeball around your own minions was healthy for the game, they could have nerfed Unstable Poison to do something like 30% damage to Heroes. They could have made it so that consecutive hits on a hero within a certain period deal only 10% damage or that a hero can take damage at most once per second from it.
But they didn’t. They outright removed it. Because no matter how you’d put it, it sucks to play against. And later they conveniently forgot about that little tidbit when designing Hanzo.
I don’t see the issue. Its the go to talent for Hanzo at that level, if you try to hide in a wave to prevent damage then you only have yourself to blame. Press tab, check his talent pick. You wouldn’t walk back into Kael’s Firestrike if he took Fury of the Sunwell, unless you were unware of his talent choice. Its one of those things, I’ve been killed plenty of times by Hanzo explosive pierce due to standing in minions, but I don’t think I’ve been killed twice in one match by them.
2 Likes
i would like to add that nova lost railgun + explosive rounds for exactly the same reason sylvannas lost unstable poison. I’m pretty salty that hanzo has this combo. Remove that interaction for consistency is design philosophy, and buff Q build somehow to compensate if he really is underperforming.
or give it back to nova and sylvannas. I’d prefer to buff nova and syl.
Terrible. pls consider deleting this thread.
From the very first moment hanzo was released I was like why does he have explosive arrows? Why should he be able to instant delete waves? He can have his pve on scattered arrows but not on his q. Hanzo is meant to be more of a single target sniper type of hero but aoe blow ups
How so?
Unstable Poison was weaker in every regard at the moment they removed PvP from it. Its kinda weird they are fine with far better version of it.
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