At first I didn’t wanted to post this but when I compared old hots games to new one I notice how much more important soaking is now and how broken exp rates are. Lets start with minions. Minion grant 80 exp. Than tower, tower grant 125 exp … wait what? So you are telling me that single tower, one that can literally kill whole minion wave even if all ranged minions (w/o catapults) would have infest bonus on 350% is worth slighty over 1,5 minion … very well. Next heroes, heroes grants 300 exp … aka 3,75 minion. While in quests heroes are usually 10 minions … in my opinion rates should be changed to - minion 30 exp (killing whole wave while being next to it or having all exp globes grants additional 105/120 exp (depending if wave was with catapult), tower - 210 exp, Hero 300 exp. It would also balance out broken ult of lava wave as people would notice - "Hey … I gained close to no exp … what a trash … " (currently 6 times more people choose lava wave due to it’s ‘insta killing minion’). If those rates are unfair I guess 50 exp for minion 200 for tower 350 for hero could exsist.
high minion exp encourages soaking, as soaking multiple waves in early game are worth more than kills
if the game encouraged hero exp more, people would soak even less
Which would probably be good for a pvp based game.
This is a very true post. Exp is really lame. Killing Heroes and structures should be worth MUCH MUCH MORE then minions and camps. It encourages fights, dives, invades, and more PvP.
The problem is, most players dont excel at PvP, they want to “soak”. It’s safe. It’s easy. It makes you feel like your contributing.
no wonder why who ever complained about the exp gain after the brawl because the answer is there was fair issue’s with everything getting attacked in a fair even way and now I am going to wonder if it was worth it on mentioning this
by having minions be collectively worth more xp than heroes (in the early game) that incentivises heroes to actually skirmish over something; if heroes are worth more xp, then you ‘deny’ the enemy side more experience by playing safely.
Dota 2 had all sorts of xp deny mechanics that keep getting nerfed and nerfed and nerfed because the accruement of xp is more engaging than a slapfight to deny xp. Since players get caught up bad skirmishes and over extend, they tend to lose out on soak opportunities, don’t time merc camps, ignore how push momentum works, and otherwise look to blame anything else (esp calling it ‘broken’) for stuff they don’t know.
Towers used to have a higher upfront xp value, but that encouraged teams to use the objective to rush towers in all the lanes so they could get a fast lvl 10, and then oppress the other team with access to heroic abilities and essentially force them to play from behind till they make a mistake.
Part of the reason orbs were even added was to add a better visual element to xp control in games because that’s the resource to gather and ‘risk’ (to some degree) even stepping out and away from towers and forts.
Functionally, the value of heroes are lower in the early game so a few key deaths doesn’t snowball the game (waaaa, he fed this game is over) However, the value of takedowns shifts if there is a level gap between teams such that when down 3-4 levels, getting a single takedown or two can turn things around and offset the “oh no it’s only 300 xp”
Similarly, a number of heroes are balanced around death mechanics relative to the hero xp value as is, so the complaint seems a bit misguided in portioning out how xp values function over the course of the game, or rather, why they’ve been changed about 3 times as is.
this is a MOBA though, not a rock em sock em street fighter game.
i do agree that structures should grant more exp, but blizzard seems to disagree, since they hate specialists and split pushing in general now 
Towers used to give more xp what led to snowballs early on, with vehicle type objectives in particular. Team that won first objective rotated and sniped towers gaining massive xp lead. As if losing objective wasnt enough. Back when hotslogs had lot of replays, winrate of first objectives was massive.
I neither want to bother with details or remember the details anymore but this is not exactly true.
- Minion xp scales with time (and exact value depends on map too).
- Hero kill xp… eh, it depends on both teams levels and exact experience difference (which then defines the value of modifier, there are like 3-4 of them).
Iirc you get 300 xp from kill only early on before anyone soaks any minion xp. 1 minion killed on either side and experience difference modifier kicks in.
Hots xp system is more complicated than it seems (maybe even overcomplicated), changing few basic numbers here and there change more than you think.
Towers have always granted quite little experience. Forts and Keeps used to grant the most but now they grant catapult minions and increased passive experience gain.
Well a MOBA isn’t all about PvP is it?
If Blizzard made exp from structures worth more then you’ll have snowball effects that are way more out of hand and occur earlier. Besides, HotS has been refitting specialist-esque heroes and making them more team fight ish ever since the Sylvanas and Azmodan reworks.
It’s always been that way. Some players just didn’t notice until xp globes came around. But it’s nothing new.
All minions aren’t worth the same amount of xp. Hero kills will vary based on level. (Note that minions level up as well, and their xp value changes throughout the game.) Structures do not scale.
Destroying towers makes your minion wave threaten the structure, and your enemy is forced to regularly clear it or lose the structure. That’s a big enough advantage that the towers themselves don’t need to award massive xp.
Also, if lava wave worked the way you want it to, no one would ever pick it since it would make you lose xp. And xp wins games.
But then the games would last forever. People would fight and fight and no one would get near destroying structures or the core.
That’s because they are contributing. More than someone looking for, or getting a kill early. A Lvl 1 hero kill is worth 100xp. A Lvl 1 minion wave is almost 500 xp. Why would you want to trade 500 for 100?
Level leads is what wins games. It has nothing to do with being safe. People who cause loses are the ones who chase kills and die. Feeding xp to the enemy until their team can no longer win.
No, people want to win games, so the fighting would only happen around objectives or if the teams were even… once someone on the opposing team dies, that’s when good players will clear lanes/ get camps/ push/ etc…
I see too many potatoes avoiding team fights but saying “But look at my EXP” with zero kills and less hero damage then the tank. Hey if soaking is your thing, great… go play vs AI games and you can soak and kill trash all day long.
Dude have you not seen people fighting mid forever right now?
I have never seen the scenario “People only fight during objective” ever. Not since I started playing this game. People pick fights for no reason, even when they have nothing to gain. Even when they’re 3 vs 5, they go in and then wonder why they died.
Btw, hero damage is meaningless.
Man, the people here are clueless.
Structures used to be worth more experience, and whichever team destroyed a structure first (likely through objective) would gain a larger lead than they do now.
Instead, Destroying a Fort provides your team with a stacking 20% increase in passive experience gain. Meaning it’s still very important to kill structures before your opponent, and then deny them destroying structures. It just leads to less blatant snowballing.
Also destroying a fort causes every 3rd minion wave to spawn a catapult, which provides passive pushing, granting you increased map control and pressure.
Soaking was always important.
If you don’t remember idiots letting towers run out of ammo, and entire forts being destroyed by a minion wave because the tower can’t shoot back, then you might not have an idea.
You guys should just go play ARAM, because you clearly don’t get strategy.
No they don’t. You can practically just afk push as Morales in Bronze and win games.
In high level games you will see them leave objectives, when it is intelligent to do so, to get a bit more pushing in. It’s the lowbies that have all 5 sit on objective when the enemy has already lost 2 heroes and retreated.
Because of the lack of hard carrying, I’d stick with the team as 5 even if it’s 3v5. In hots you can still win outnumbered 4 to your 3 which is really sad. 5 people against 3 will seal the deal although you don’t maximize your macro play
This guy gets it. Current XP system is far and away better than anything they have ever dabbled with in the past.
Seems like people have already forgotten why XP from structures has been retuned: it leads to early game snowball with smaller chance to achieve a come back.
Let me explain. Main problem of current setting is that current game went to far into focus on siege - especially minions leaving a lot of Hero Killing focused characters (such as Alarak) hopeless. OFC he can shine during the objective but what is objective worth if e.g. full hp solo Immortal (unnatended either by allies or enemies heroes) can’t push single step of line (towers + keep) alone. I literally had game when my team had only 8 kills and enemies had 29 and we still won without second keeps pushed. That is problem - siege aspect is dominating arena aspect of game.
As for exp rates I showed those are for both teams being level 1 but even if so exp rates even with bonuses for killing higher level heroes are irrelevant. If both teams focus on siege and playing safe it is way to hard to make difference.
Heroes do give a decent bit of experience, especially if you are behind on levels. It’s a PvP game, but that doesn’t mean it only revolves around team fights
Even if you are 4 level behind 1 hero kill is worth less than whole minion wave despite some heroes (not even counting Ragnaros broken lava wave that is literally 25% of level per call in later game if aimed good) would manage to deal alone with 4 minion waves by themselves without breaking a sweat. This is problem - Hero even on low level is danger as it gathers ton of exp can easily kill you etc, steal camps, capture objective yet game tells in meme style: “Best what I can give you is exp worth of 4 minions …”