Did Tassadar make Jaina obsolete?

General Discussion
1

I haven’t been seeing any Jaina’s lately, and the reasoning seem to be very obvious - because Tassadar was reworked into a mage, and he seem to be able to do everything that Jaina can do, but better.

Jaina has slows? Tassadar has slows as well. His Q slows everyone he touches for 2 seconds, and it’s a greater slow of 30%. On top of that, shock ray has a much longer range and can hit the backline whereas Jaina can’t. Tassadar’s autoattacks also slow, and at level 4 he gain endless shields per second. This is much sooner than Jaina’s level 13 ice barrier talent.

Tassadar also has better waveclear, and better camp clear than Jaina. Tassadar can clear a wave with just one W and Q, which costs FAR less mana than Jaina’s W and E. On top of that, Tassadar has baseline mana gain, far better than Jaina’s fingers of frost which requires collecting 20 globes and even after collecting, it doesn’t mana regen as much as Tassadar’s trait. And even worse, Jaina has to TRAIT into PvE (fingers of frost, Q pierce, and Q CDR), whereas Tassadar has excellent PvE starting level 1.

Ultimates? Tassadar’s ultimates are better. Water elemental? How about turning into an Archon and being a “water elemental” yourself slowing everyone around you? Black hole and ring of frost function differently, but black hole is much easier to land.

Both are immobile, but Tassadar is “less immobile”. He can shadow walk away from danger at level 13, and he can talent into movement speed at level 4 (not that it’s a good talent since it’s competing with an OP shield talent)

And this is not including the fact that Tassadar has force wall to secure kills, something that Jaina doesn’t have.

I think Jaina need some buffs, or at least, some rework in order for there to be a reason to pick Jaina over Tassadar.

2 Likes
2

I never thought about it but I think you’re right. Jaina just doesn’t bring much to the table anymore. She has her RoF wombo combo but even that’s not so great now, especially not with the new medallion.

It’s sad that both Jaina and Kael’thas seem to be outclassed these days. They were the original gangsta mages.

3

Jania does compete with Tass for some stuff like wave clear and slows. Tass can also do camps rather well but I wouldn’t say better. She does have a better set up with ring and her slows can be harder to deal with. I think Jaina has just fallen out of popularity a bit. She’s still really strong but she’s also riskier. Tass is a safer pick in most cases.

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4

Tassadar can’t sick a water elemental on you though.

5

Jaina is strong simply for Icy Veins + Numbing Blast. Also Jaina’s slows are better, and her stuff’s harder to dodge.

Honestly they’re kind of even, minus the fact Tassadar has a higher winrate. Probably because of his shields.

6

I’d say it’s the wall. You can enable kills for your team even when your offensive abilities are on cooldown.

1 Like
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Jaina is still the Ice Queen of Damage. Tassadar has hard time to 100-to-0 anyone without Black Hole combos. As such he’s more about range and sustain. His waveclear is ridiculous after mid game tho. He’s comparable to Medivh’s Q upgrade from level 20 because the total damage is enough to instantly vanish even the frontliner minions.

Anyways, if anything I had even more success to play Jaina since Tassadar showed up. Unlike him you’re way more reliant on action with Jaina and less reliant on your team to herd targets into your firing line. Also in spite of the superior amount of survivability tricks for the High Templar when it comes to escaping situations Jaina is superior. So when I faced Tass comps I just used the fact that I can disassemble part of their team on my own and ruined their teamwork. Hence my increased winrate with her.

6 Likes
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No at all. Tassadar is for good for spamming magic burst, but has no real cc, only his wall. While Jaina has tons of slow and also aoe root, if needed. How is that comparable?

Tass is more comparable to Chromie or Ming, who deals dmg by spam their spells.

I wouldn’t say it’s only his shield, but rather a mix of shields and his ability to deal dmg from save distance thanks to Q, that’s why the devs nerfed it in the last patch. Jaina’s abilitys are more midrange compared to Tass Q.

For me he feels a bit like Chromie, who can spam her abilitys from save distance and harass his enemys. But if divers comes near to him, then goes in Archon.

9

Tassadar is more popular because clicking archon and right click someone is easier and more rewarding.
If at any point archon is finally balanced and black hole becomes a better setup ult i can see jaina gaining ground.

2 Likes
10

No.
Twentycharacters

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11

I wouldn’t say obsolete, but it does beg the question of how much adding another mage to the game was really necessary lol.

1 Like
12

Jaina is a great button masher mage for noobies and should stay that way. If she needs buffs she should gain buffs that make her easier to play for noobies, like lowered mana costs or higher healh.

13

Or you can nerf both jaina and tass, not like they can’t afford it.

14

Jaina has one thing few other mages have: reliable damage.
Her abilities are all very difficult to dodge and come out very fast.

For that reason she’s one of my most picked mages. Not to mention her 13, 16, and 20 powerspikes (when picking water ele) are so incredibly satisfying and powerful.

15

Tbh, good Jaina is more dangerous than good Tassadar.

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The difference between a good Tass and those who are just decent is… you die less often. That’s it. You position better, hit spells somewhat more reliably and done.

Good Jaina? She’ll show you her magic trick which involves making you disappear and suddenly on death timer. Jaina is absolutely not for a noob to handle and she has perhaps the greatest burst damage out of all mages.

17

Tassadar have a pretty decent slow, but Jaina’s slow is so much more consistent (even with tass AA) that engaging jaina is certain to get you CC’d rather than a risk as with Tassadar (also note that it isn’t hard to avoid his Q if you’re paying atention).

I’d say Tass have a slight advantage in not needing to wait the minion wave group up (meaning he can clear incoming waves faster) and his mana regen, but if you’re ganked while clearing as Jaina you have a better chance to survive and for me that’s enough to choose her in terms of Waveclearing.

I wouldn’t compare their ultimates, their pretty distinct and fit for their respective heroes, but i’ll cross the bridge and talk about it.
so… the set-up/CC option, Frost Ring and Black hole: Black hole have an almost instant wind-up, great as a counter tool, their effect is similar, pending to which CC is better for the situation, but Frost Ring lasts longer and deals a lot of damage. so for me black hole is only better when you’re not good at hitting that Frost Ring.
Now, the Archon… The Archon temporarily gives Tassadar increased survivability and consistent slow+damage, but tbh that’s basically Jaina with long range, also, the water elemental can do many things, one of them is increase Jaina’s reach. now, i’m not saying Water Elemental is equal to Tass Q, but it helps Jaina do Jaina things.

Jaina’s W can secure kills just as good (with few exceptions to both sides), and I’d say that the only thing I favour about Tass’ E over Jaina’s W is its ability to physically move people away from it’s center.

I’ll conclude saying that neither Tassadar nor Jaina is straight better than the other, Jaina can do a lot of things better than Tassa, and Tassa can do some things better than Jaina. but if I were to choose without any decisive factor I’d choose Jaina simply because she’s more independent. They don’t need buffs nor nerfs, they just need some more love from the players.

1 Like
18

Never thought about that, but the Medallion makes Ring of Frost completely worthless against anyone outside AI games or Bronze 5.

It’s so telegraphed, so predictable, you can now just save Medallion for it and avoid a certain death by casting it just before you’re about to get rooted.

I have to admit, Jaina feels like an afterthought and non-entity at the moment.

2 Likes
19

I have no idea why you even think this.
First off, Medallion can be forced out earlier. Even if not, Ring of Frost is a modest cooldown ability and not even her only way to root people. At level 20 you even get a generous CDR element, granted that’s very late game. Plus there’s the fact Jaina builds shifted away from Ring of Frost as the main ult towards Water Elemental.

So yeah, while CC-reliant ults in the Medallion meta need more thought, that’s all to it.

2 Likes
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Well, I wouldn’t say 80s is modest, but at least it is better than when it was at 100s. As it stands, Medallion will be able to cancel out roughly every 3rd RoF.

Then again, I never picked any other ult than RoF on Jaina anyway. Even if it hits 1-2 players it gets decent value. I just can’t remember people picking her much after Tassadar was released.