Sounds more like a sponge bob reference to me.
Working on the balance team is a pathway to many updates some would consider to be unnatural.
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The irony being that, people simply ban something they have no intention of ever fighting and yet claim OP. I mean, how exactly can you get good data on a hero through one or two games of him? People simply need to ban him less and opt to actually play against him. My crew did the exact same thing on BoE and soundly trounced him and his team. It’s amazing what you can do when cursed bullet basically puts one memeber out on the bench for the enemy team for 45 seconds.
Sure there are counterbans to play deathwing, but not many people actually do ban his counters despite how good they are. Weird really. There’s also plenty of ways to play around deathwing and not play into him. If you’re picking something with low sustained ranged damage or something that depends on simply heal tanking through stuff with meat, then frankly you deserve to be countered by something like deathwing. The rest is simply not great mechanically adept players tbh.
Only problems I ever had with deathwing were based on comp, which was literally never an issue with draft.
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How? Is the text scented for you, and if so where can I buy whatever monitor you have?
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That opens so many doors and windows that I do not ever want to know of.
Let’s not imagine what someone like mephisto smells like, or worse… Azmodan.
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dead on target.
I didnt ban Deathwing in any of my yesterdays games (whenever I got the leader title, or whtever u call it in ranked) , And im in bronze (just to let you guys know)
I lost 1 game against him, and won 3 games. as Greymane.
And I had no issues at all, even in the one i lost, it was most because we fell behind xp.
Most common explanation for banning deathwing that i got was = All heroes are OP when released, so they should always be banned 
I mean, at least have a go at the hero and see how threatening he is,
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His CC slows and stuns make him useful while he kites the heros that counter him he’s not very fun he has an answer for everything you throw at him
Tychus buffs pretty please? 
I actually considered this too. If Devs want to see much more faster data they could technically implement some sort of mechanic that prevents new heroes from being banned from draft modes. That way the hero WILL see draft gameplay.
A middle ground solution at the very least could be to prevent bans in Unranked Draft only until they get enough data. Then the data obtained is more balanced between QM (worst) and unranked draft (better).
I don’t think that’s necessary. Like the dev said here, they get enough data even with a 90% banrate.
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Understood that from AZJackson reply. Though it probably takes more time?
Two things mainly:
1- Get the hero balanced as soon as possible.
2- Get the hero to a “playable” state in draft play as soon as possible.
Just anything to help the devs get data/balance patches out faster. I am aware they work their butts off with lots of other issues: hero releases, new content, map rotations, hero development, maintenance, art, etc., but balance patches feel that they take a bit too long. Then, after that wait, we sometimes get slight, just very slight changes, starting the balance cycle again. All that time, the hero is out of draft play and making QM more challenging.
On the other side, our developers, usually make balance changes, on spot, precise and fair after enough data is gathered. While reverting changes happen, they are not that often, which I don’t mind as long as it adds fun to the gameplay (Rehgar Ancestral says Hi).
I just wish, getting a new hero balanced to draft play didn’t take as long as it is now, especially with new heroes.
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Idk, I feel like they would still release a balance patch after 3 weeks of a hero release because of how much work they have to put into it and other things. Even if they could balance a hero 1 week after a release, I don’t think it’s healthy for the game to force players to play against an OP hero in draft.
There was a time where we had no bans and there was always that one hero that was really really good. Basically the team that had first pick would win. That was not healthy for the game or healthy for the players.
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Agree. The key wording being OP. I think the hero should be, hence the original post, slightly overtuned. I am okey with this so people actually use it. But between slightly overtuned and OP is a sea of difference. Is there a need to release them in and OP state as opposed to slightly overtuned. One is okey, the other is not precisely by what you mention in your second paragraph.
Just FYI, and only pertinent to your reference of there was a time, I was present in that time. 5 year player. Beta account 40 portrait so I understand what you mean.
That is why I had to qualify my answer to, maybe, allow him in Unranked Draft only? And if the hero is truly OP on release, maybe bring it down a quite a few notches ASAP and not take over a month. In the conundrum we are at.
Slightly overtuned release is right. OP release is unhealthy, please fix asap.
Which bring us to the debate if DW is OP or just slightly overtuned. Which purposefully don’t want to get into and not the object of the thread. And it’s been discussed too much and my opinion doesn’t matter.
Give the dragon a chance to see draft play. You think he will still be perma banned even after the upcoming changes? Diablo was “fixed” in that regard.
The thing is, we never know if a hero will turn out to be OP, bad or anything. The devs can have an idea when they do their tests, but they can’t test everything.
Even if the new hero turns out to be OP, I think the devs would still only patch him after 3 weeks instead of in 3 days or even 1 week. From what I’ve seen, they don’t just release a patch for 1 thing asap unless it’s something really really important. Let’s look at Samuro for example, he’s been bugged since his rework and the Dev said in another thread that they fixed it for the next patch, but they don’t even know when that will be. That considering that the bug is really annoying and can really put Samuro in a bad position. I feel like the Devs like to follow their schedule.
I mean, the is being played even being banned 90% of the time. Those 10% matches are definitely a lot of data already. And that is considering a website that the majority of the playerbase don’t even use, so the data the devs have is based on way more games than those 1000 we have there (looking at diamond + and hero level 5+). If we look at everything on SL, he has 6k games played. That is quite a lot already.
I really think the devs just don’t have time to balance everything asap. That is also why they changed the balance patch to 3 weeks after release instead of 2 weeks.
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Well, if it was always as simple as just dodging, then most of the roster would be trash-tier.
It can be quite disheartening when you’re playing a hero like Qhira against him. Your E is completely useless, he can shrug off most of your damage, and he has plenty of damage and sustain to beat you in a 1v1, especially without the right talents. Depending on your build, you’ll struggle to even get through his first plate before needing to back out, never mind killing him.
Just dont use that monitor while looking at a hub
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Qhira doesn’t mind DW at all as long as you aren’t going W build, at least from what I’ve noticed. AA build specifically works wonders against DW since, once he’s below 50%, DW has to run away fast to not get Qhira’d.
Really is hilarious watching a DW run away from you.
Even if they weren’t getting enough draft games due to bans, I don’t feel that QM data would be useless for roughing out the initial balancing. QM will provide data on Deathwing vs everyone, in every possible comp. Draft may see counters to DW banned, and not provide meaningful insights about those matchups. If anything, QM provides too much information, that needs to be carefully examined to find helpful information. Draft is possibly a little too limited in its scope, and may exclude relevant information.
Both modes could be helpful initially, but subsequent balancing should focus on draft.
Good post. I believe this is what devs are doing atm. My grip is the time consumed in order to achieve QM and Draft average balance. While the data gathers, mostly after release, the hero is “wrecking QM” while also “out of draft.”
Which can be offset, by what Darak and I were talking about before, the degree of the “overpoweredness” vs “slight overtuning” at the initial release.
Some people don’t like to face the facts… the data on every third party site said the hero was broken but people will always be stuck in their own little world.
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