Definition of Bruiser indicates that

“Bruiser heroes are tough fighters that are capable of putting out some damage.”
Other things that usually indicate bruisers are…

  • capable of limited CC (only Malth can’t CC)
  • generally have high self healing
  • generally either have high sustained damage or high burst, but usually not both (Imperius is the only real exception)
  • generally have higher health then assassins.

So… Raynor is a bruiser? Food for thought lol

EDIT: Just highlighting how stupid the current Role system is.

Actually he can. Slow (teamwide btw) is a form of CC.

Pick him, dive the enemy and you’ll see.

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That’s true, I’m not saying “Draft Raynor as a bruiser” just highlighting the absolute idiocrasy of the current Hero Role system.

You probably shouldn’t take the role system as something strictly compartmental. It’s more like a spectrum with a fair bit of overlap between roles. Or as you mentioned, no less than five times, the operating words here are generally and usually.

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Why do you think the role system is bad? I think it works perfectly. There will always be Heroes who are blurry (exist between two roles) or those who can work in multiple ones, but our classification is more detailed than the previous one while still being simple, which new players need, while veterans know the smaller details.

You should also remember heroes like Rag, Malth, Xul and Thrall are more like semi bruiser/melee assasian.

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Raynor has knockback and slow = less CC than average bruisers.
One time use self heal which heals a lot less than average bruiser.
Average health among assassins, about same as Lunara and less than KT. Good 500-1000 less than bruisers in general.

I really can’t see how you think he is even remotely close to numbers bruisers have.

As far as I’m concerned a bruiser would be the “middle ground between tank and assassin”. That’s how I explain it at least.

So, while Raynor is capable of lots of stuff a proper bruiser could do (good self heal, limited CC, etc), he is still far from being tanky, hence he can’t really fit as a bruiser.

On the other hand, I agree the role system needs some polish (particularly support role).

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To me, EHP has always been on their main points.
D.va was the sole exception to bruisers not having wild amounts of sustain and she made up for it with 2 (two) health bars. Now that Gazlowe’s a bruiser I guess that’s kinda his spot now but even he has talents to stay in the fight.

Most Bruisers can essentially have infinite sustain if the enemy team isn’t dealing with them accordingly. Most notable are Yrel, Artanis and Varian, but the rest of them are still tanky in their own right, and with a specific build they can eat damage and spit it out.
Thrall and Malthael can be phenomenally tanky when the player has a good grasp on their EHP and engages accordingly, instead of just diving and hoping you can sustain yourself through it.

Raynor is surprisingly tanky for a ranged assassin but I wouldn’t say he has the sustain to be labeled as one.

Raynor doesn’t have a lot of HP. And his sustain doesn’t compare to a bruiser. Long cd, high mana cost.

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“Fluids are substances that are able to continuously deform under external pressure to fit their container”

Therefore, a cat is a fluid :slight_smile:

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LiLi is 100% a bruiser

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I miss Sonya in your list of the most notable. She has inbuild lifesteal/armor, can talent into more defensive options and with rage as her ability ressource she can always fight. Same would go to Hogger, who can be quite tanky, but it’s a bit harder with him.

And we don’t even mentioned Xul or Leoric, who are used as tanks from the top players.

EDIT: I would even say basically all bruisers can kinda be tanks, except Ragnaros (?), even Rexxar has Misha for that purpose.

Raynor’s health pool is actually fairly low, even KT has more HP. Alarak or The Butcher meet more of the requirements for a bruiser than Raynor does.

I think the role system is fine as it is, as it is meant to be more of a guideline than any hard and fast rule. Given the amazing diversity of the current roster, there is no simple system that will ever categorize all heroes accurately.

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This is why role based matchmaking like in OW wouldn’t work in Hots.

She fits under the “tanky with talents” category.
Baseline she’s only a few steps up from a melee assassin and while she has the tools to stick to targets she folds hard to focus because that mobility isn’t entirely unconditional.

Xul can’t even be considered a melee assassin until he gets some talents. W build offers some crazy amounts of damage and sustain but again that’s also reliant on him catching multiple people and not getting CC’d.
Leoric is slow and clunky, while he has some strong tools he feels absolutely miserable to play when you’re being focused or wadding through CC.

To me a tank has strong implications of less or unconditional sustain and mobility that be can be used freely.
Whereas a bruiser favors an all-in style where they heal in combat.
I was just listing off common offenders. For instance, Varian is harder to lock down than Xul because of parry, charge and innate movespeed. And while not considered very meta Artanis (and Yrel) can simply just refuse to take damage, much less die, sometimes.

I know what you mean, Avikon, but still this heroes can fit the tank role under very specific circumstances, if we take this pro tierlists as a proof. Or describe it in other words: It’s not tanks that are mandatory, but frontliner and the second includes tanks, bruisers or healer (Uther).

Raynor is as good brusier as stitches is tank.

Useless for that role.